The Ultimate "Why Orion Is A Failure" thread......

[DumbTruckDriver]

Which is why they insist we wear those damn things all the way to our first stop and from the last stop back to the center.

I see some new drivers wearing them all day. Meanwhile, they’re blowing through stop signs, running, not taking breaks, etc.

 

[MECH-lift]

I see some new drivers wearing them all day. Meanwhile, they’re blowing through stop signs, running, not taking breaks, etc.

safety committee guys lol

 

[Wally]

I see some new drivers wearing them all day. Meanwhile, they’re blowing through stop signs, running, not taking breaks, etc.

It will make identifying the remains easier.

 

[Wally]

I see some new drivers wearing them all day. Meanwhile, they’re blowing through stop signs, running, not taking breaks, etc.

 

[Hot Carl]

I see some new drivers wearing them all day. Meanwhile, they’re blowing through stop signs, running, not taking breaks, etc.

Gotta qualify somehow. It's pretty well understood in our building that you do whatever it takes and cut every corner you have to if you want to make book, but once that 30 days are up, work those methods baby. 30 years is a long time. Running and gunning every day is a great way to end up in a wheelchair or worse, becoming a full-time supe.

 

[DumbTruckDriver]

Gotta qualify somehow. It's pretty well understood in our building that you do whatever it takes and cut every corner you have to if you want to make book, but once that 30 days are up, work those methods baby. 30 years is a long time. Running and gunning every day is a great way to end up in a wheelchair or worse, becoming a full-time supe.

These are kids that have already made it. Management rides their asses about SPOHR constantly. They haven’t figured out that none of that matters.

 

[SafetyFirst]

They've gone back to enforcing Orion in my building but everytime they say something about it at PCM they subsequently call my entire loop to stay after the PCM and remind us that our loop is directed not to follow it

... But they still won't turn it off

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They won't even let us follow it on safety rides or anything.

 

[542thruNthru]

They've gone back to enforcing Orion in my building but everytime they say something about it at PCM they subsequently call my entire loop to stay after the PCM and remind us that our loop is directed not to follow it

... But they still won't turn it off

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They won't even let us follow it on safety rides or anything.

I would follow it anyways. What are they going to do write you up for following trace like you're supposed to do.

 

[PASinterference]

I would follow it anyways. What are they going to do write you up for following trace like you're supposed to do.

Corporate would love to hear about that. Write me up....I dare you.

 

[542thruNthru]

Corporate would love to hear about that. Write me up....I dare you.

My shop steward would love it. Can you imagine the rebuttal to that warning letter lol.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I had some more thoughts about Orion today. The "creator" said there is practically an infinite number of ways to run a route. First question is, do the computers really have the power to come up, in a timely manner, with the best way to run a route with so many possibilities. I'm willing to believe that could be possible with enough equipment.

My next question is, with that many possibilities, there is bound to be a set of possibilities with identical outcomes. Let's say 50 out of eleventymillionquintillionbajillion ways have the exact same outcome. How does Orion choose which one to go with? This is at the heart of what is wrong with Orion. AI just isn't capable of resolving dilemmas. I believe it would cause a regressive loop and the system would crash. The work arounds they must have to prevent that likely prevent the actual optimization of a route.

Not that I'm a programming expert, but I would.be interested in hearing the answers to those questions.

 

[JustAnotherSup]

I had some more thoughts about Orion today. The "creator" said there is practically an infinite number of ways to run a route. First question is, do the computers really have the power to come up, in a timely manner, with the best way to run a route with so many possibilities. I'm willing to believe that could be possible with enough equipment.

Brute forcing the problem is not the answer. 150 stops and only visiting each stop once allows for 57133839564458545904789328652610540031895535786011264182548375833179829124845398393126574488675311145377107878746854204162666250198684504466355949195922066574942592095735778929325357290444962472405416790722118445437122269675520000000000000000000000000000000000000 possible combinations (let's just call this 6*10^262 for convenience). Maybe you have a supercomputer that can do 200 trillion calculations per second (2*10^14) and assuming that it only takes one calculation to find one combination (which is obviously not the case, but let's just go with it). Literally the world's fastest supercomputer. So it takes that supercomputer about 3*10^248 seconds to do the calculation. Or about 9.5*10^240 years. One trillion years is practically nothing compared to this span of time.

Even speeding up our supercomputer by several orders of magnitude barely helps. We just can't do it with our current level of technology. For that matter, we may NEVER be able to do it in a reasonable time frame at any level of technology humans will achieve.

My next question is, with that many possibilities, there is bound to be a set of possibilities with identical outcomes. Let's say 50 out of eleventymillionquintillionbajillion ways have the exact same outcome. How does Orion choose which one to go with? This is at the heart of what is wrong with Orion. AI just isn't capable of resolving dilemmas. I believe it would cause a regressive loop and the system would crash. The work arounds they must have to prevent that likely prevent the actual optimization of a route.

First, there is not necessarily bound to be a set of possibilities with identical outcomes. It's possible, but not guaranteed. Second, ORION isn't something that would be considered AI. Something like optical character recognition isn't even commonly considered AI. Third, creating some rules to evaluate n=50 different (already computed) solutions to a problem like this where miles and time (or cost, or whatever else you're looking at) are equivalent isn't difficult. Just evaluate those 50 best solutions based on some other criteria (or set of criteria) that's pre-determined. If somehow there's *still* a tie and you can't find any more parameters to evaluate and make a decision, just pick one at random.

This isn't that far off from how people make complicated decisions between very similar options. Look at other criteria you weren't initially looking at before (or weren't initially presented with the information on). If all options or just some options are still basically equivalent, pick between those options at random if forced to make a choice. And the reason it's similar is because a person is evaluating such a decision in our example case.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Brute forcing the problem is not the answer. 150 stops and only visiting each stop once allows for 57133839564458545904789328652610540031895535786011264182548375833179829124845398393126574488675311145377107878746854204162666250198684504466355949195922066574942592095735778929325357290444962472405416790722118445437122269675520000000000000000000000000000000000000 possible combinations (let's just call this 6*10^262 for convenience). Maybe you have a supercomputer that can do 200 trillion calculations per second (2*10^14) and assuming that it only takes one calculation to find one combination (which is obviously not the case, but let's just go with it). Literally the world's fastest supercomputer. So it takes that supercomputer about 3*10^248 seconds to do the calculation. Or about 9.5*10^240 years. One trillion years is practically nothing compared to this span of time.

Even speeding up our supercomputer by several orders of magnitude barely helps. We just can't do it with our current level of technology. For that matter, we may NEVER be able to do it in a reasonable time frame at any level of technology humans will achieve.



First, there is not necessarily bound to be a set of possibilities with identical outcomes. It's possible, but not guaranteed. Second, ORION isn't something that would be considered AI. Something like optical character recognition isn't even commonly considered AI. Third, creating some rules to evaluate n=50 different (already computed) solutions to a problem like this where miles and time (or cost, or whatever else you're looking at) are equivalent isn't difficult. Just evaluate those 50 best solutions based on some other criteria (or set of criteria) that's pre-determined. If somehow there's *still* a tie and you can't find any more parameters to evaluate and make a decision, just pick one at random.

This isn't that far off from how people make complicated decisions between very similar options. Look at other criteria you weren't initially looking at before (or weren't initially presented with the information on). If all options or just some options are still basically equivalent, pick between those options at random if forced to make a choice. And the reason it's similar is because a person is evaluating such a decision in our example case.

Orion sucks

It can't even tell how many stops are in an office building

What a joke.

 

[Wally]

Brute forcing the problem is not the answer. 150 stops and only visiting each stop once allows for 57133839564458545904789328652610540031895535786011264182548375833179829124845398393126574488675311145377107878746854204162666250198684504466355949195922066574942592095735778929325357290444962472405416790722118445437122269675520000000000000000000000000000000000000 possible combinations (let's just call this 6*10^262 for convenience). Maybe you have a supercomputer that can do 200 trillion calculations per second (2*10^14) and assuming that it only takes one calculation to find one combination (which is obviously not the case, but let's just go with it). Literally the world's fastest supercomputer. So it takes that supercomputer about 3*10^248 seconds to do the calculation. Or about 9.5*10^240 years. One trillion years is practically nothing compared to this span of time.

Even speeding up our supercomputer by several orders of magnitude barely helps. We just can't do it with our current level of technology. For that matter, we may NEVER be able to do it in a reasonable time frame at any level of technology humans will achieve.



First, there is not necessarily bound to be a set of possibilities with identical outcomes. It's possible, but not guaranteed. Second, ORION isn't something that would be considered AI. Something like optical character recognition isn't even commonly considered AI. Third, creating some rules to evaluate n=50 different (already computed) solutions to a problem like this where miles and time (or cost, or whatever else you're looking at) are equivalent isn't difficult. Just evaluate those 50 best solutions based on some other criteria (or set of criteria) that's pre-determined. If somehow there's *still* a tie and you can't find any more parameters to evaluate and make a decision, just pick one at random.

This isn't that far off from how people make complicated decisions between very similar options. Look at other criteria you weren't initially looking at before (or weren't initially presented with the information on). If all options or just some options are still basically equivalent, pick between those options at random if forced to make a choice. And the reason it's similar is because a person is evaluating such a decision in our example case.

 

[MECH-lift]

View attachment 283796

@Wally copyright

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

View attachment 283797
@Wally copyright

I'm trying to protect her from you perverts.

 

[MECH-lift]

@542thruNthru copyright

 

[542thruNthru]

View attachment 283799
@542thruNthru copyright

Not my best work...

 

[Ou812fu]

Brute forcing the problem is not the answer. 150 stops and only visiting each stop once allows for 57133839564458545904789328652610540031895535786011264182548375833179829124845398393126574488675311145377107878746854204162666250198684504466355949195922066574942592095735778929325357290444962472405416790722118445437122269675520000000000000000000000000000000000000 possible combinations (let's just call this 6*10^262 for convenience). Maybe you have a supercomputer that can do 200 trillion calculations per second (2*10^14) and assuming that it only takes one calculation to find one combination (which is obviously not the case, but let's just go with it). Literally the world's fastest supercomputer. So it takes that supercomputer about 3*10^248 seconds to do the calculation. Or about 9.5*10^240 years. One trillion years is practically nothing compared to this span of time.

Even speeding up our supercomputer by several orders of magnitude barely helps. We just can't do it with our current level of technology. For that matter, we may NEVER be able to do it in a reasonable time frame at any level of technology humans will achieve.



First, there is not necessarily bound to be a set of possibilities with identical outcomes. It's possible, but not guaranteed. Second, ORION isn't something that would be considered AI. Something like optical character recognition isn't even commonly considered AI. Third, creating some rules to evaluate n=50 different (already computed) solutions to a problem like this where miles and time (or cost, or whatever else you're looking at) are equivalent isn't difficult. Just evaluate those 50 best solutions based on some other criteria (or set of criteria) that's pre-determined. If somehow there's *still* a tie and you can't find any more parameters to evaluate and make a decision, just pick one at random.

This isn't that far off from how people make complicated decisions between very similar options. Look at other criteria you weren't initially looking at before (or weren't initially presented with the information on). If all options or just some options are still basically equivalent, pick between those options at random if forced to make a choice. And the reason it's similar is because a person is evaluating such a decision in our example case.

The math you and the other guy is using is flawed. It isnt 150x149x148x147..... Because you have variables of business and pickup times. So if you have 60 business it should be figured out starting with 60 x down to 2. Then however many pickups say 20 x down to 2. Then 70x down to 2. The final number shrinks exponentially.

 

[MECH-lift]

Not my best work...