Voting Starts Next Week! How will you vote and why.

Slug Life

When do we eat?
A 22.4 Drivers here is going to make

$129,000 to pension over 5 years
$30 bucks an hour
full time healthcare contributions
AND CAN STLL GO TO THE RPCD POSITION.

You keep talking :censored2: but part timers have families. They will take this great opportunity for their wife and kids. It’s not like they are stuck here they can still go to a RPCD position. It is far better than part time wages, pension and healthcare contributions. PERIOD.

If you vote no your keeping them part time longer. Think about it!
At what point do you give up trying to sell this 22.4 garbage?
It’s like trying to paint a Tony Q. portrait with a turd for a base. Then claiming it’s a Picasso.
It won’t sell for the simple fact that it’s $H!+
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Writing this as a play by play as I'm watching the video. Tldr warning.

Who, exactly, is the "vote no movement" comprised of? What, exactly, is their agenda? Talk about a boogieman... she lost me right out the gate with her implied ad hominem and zero substantiation of any of her claims. What evidence does she have that Tyler is a part of some conspiracy? Sounds like dismissive, baseless claims to me. If your argument doesn't already suck, you don't need to kick it off with pure fallacy.

I understand the union's position on 22.4, but they are using weakness in the past to justify weakness now. 22.4 may be a step up for people currently being abused by the company while the union stands by and fails to do their job by not enforcing the contract. The flip side of the argument, and the most important part, is that the position undermines ground driving jobs. Maybe they won't replace ground drivers with 22.4's this contract, but we really don't want to open that door. Let's put resources into fighting the abuses by the company regarding the weak language in the supplementals where it applies, not give them carte blanche to do it everywhere.

It is a two tiered system. Sorry. She clearly doesn't understand the term.

Stop excusing the company's practice of paying part timers too little. I don't expect them to be able to support a family with one part time job, but the company can and should do better. The union shouldn't be arguing the company's case for them. Let the company set the start rate at whatever they want, then work on better pay for dues paying members. She's really not a very good financial analyst if all she can do is parrot the company's position on the matter.

70 hr work week-

2017 - the IBT's position is that it is unsafe and the union will do whatever it can to put a stop to it.

2018 - the IBT's position is "we negotiated language that gives the company our blessing to implement the 70 hour rule. What a win for the membership!"

I don't really have problem with the full time pay and pension stuff in the contract, so not much to say there. Except that pensions are a benefit, yes, but the money being paid into it is not ours, like it would be in a 401k, and pensions can cut benefit amounts, and they can go bust. The amount the company pays into the pensions on our behalf could easily make us all plenty to live on in retirement if paid into a 401k, and it would be our money to do with as we wish, not to be doled out to us in monthly installments.

She talks trash about Tyler's local not enforcing the contract, but she uses the fact that 80% of centers have tcd language that the company abuses as the main reason for 22.4. Why aren't those locals enforcing the contract? And why isn't she talking trash about them? Because they support her false narrative?

To get a better contract we have to be willing to fight, and not just bitch? Tyler's local is weak, and he is fighting the best way he knows how, and she dismisses his concerns as complaints?

Don't look to the master to solve all our problems? Fair enough, but we also shouldn't settle for a weak master that undermines the best paying job in the industry, and kicks existing part timers to the curb.

Final remark - "we can vote no, go out on strike, and give up everything we've worked for."

Talk about jaw dropping! She is implying that if we vote no it means we strike. Is she that stupid? Or does she just think we are? Or is the union actually threatening to strike if we don't pass the master first go around to punish the membership? Completely unacceptable statement from a union employee. If you have to resort to fearmongering, your argument is invalid.
 

Slug Life

When do we eat?
Writing this as a play by play as I'm watching the video. Tldr warning.

Who, exactly, is the "vote no movement" comprised of? What, exactly, is their agenda? Talk about a boogieman... she lost me right out the gate with her implied ad hominem and zero substantiation of any of her claims. What evidence does she have that Tyler is a part of some conspiracy? Sounds like dismissive, baseless claims to me. If your argument doesn't already suck, you don't need to kick it off with pure fallacy.

I understand the union's position on 22.4, but they are using weakness in the past to justify weakness now. 22.4 may be a step up for people currently being abused by the company while the union stands by and fails to do their job by not enforcing the contract. The flip side of the argument, and the most important part, is that the position undermines ground driving jobs. Maybe they won't replace ground drivers with 22.4's this contract, but we really don't want to open that door. Let's put resources into fighting the abuses by the company regarding the weak language in the supplementals where it applies, not give them carte blanche to do it everywhere.

It is a two tiered system. Sorry. She clearly doesn't understand the term.

Stop excusing the company's practice of paying part timers too little. I don't expect them to be able to support a family with one part time job, but the company can and should do better. The union shouldn't be arguing the company's case for them. Let the company set the start rate at whatever they want, then work on better pay for dues paying members. She's really not a very good financial analyst if all she can do is parrot the company's position on the matter.

70 hr work week-

2017 - the IBT's position is that it is unsafe and the union will do whatever it can to put a stop to it.

2018 - the IBT's position is "we negotiated language that gives the company our blessing to implement the 70 hour rule. What a win for the membership!"

I don't really have problem with the full time pay and pension stuff in the contract, so not much to say there. Except that pensions are a benefit, yes, but the money being paid into it is not ours, like it would be in a 401k, and pensions can cut benefit amounts, and they can go bust. The amount the company pays into the pensions on our behalf could easily make us all plenty to live on in retirement if paid into a 401k, and it would be our money to do with as we wish, not to be doled out to us in monthly installments.

She talks trash about Tyler's local not enforcing the contract, but she uses the fact that 80% of centers have tcd language that the company abuses as the main reason for 22.4. Why aren't those locals enforcing the contract? And why isn't she talking trash about them? Because they support her false narrative?

To get a better contract we have to be willing to fight, and not just bitch? Tyler's local is weak, and he is fighting the best way he knows how, and she dismisses his concerns as complaints?

Don't look to the master to solve all our problems? Fair enough, but we also shouldn't settle for a weak master that undermines the best paying job in the industry, and kicks existing part timers to the curb.

Final remark - "we can vote no, go out on strike, and give up everything we've worked for."

Talk about jaw dropping! She is implying that if we vote no it means we strike. Is she that stupid? Or does she just think we are? Or is the union actually threatening to strike if we don't pass the master first go around to punish the membership? Completely unacceptable statement from a union employee. If you have to resort to fearmongering, your argument is invalid.
Just goes to show how scared the company and certain Union Locals are of this craptract getting voted down.
 

a911scanner

Well-Known Member
A 22.4 Drivers here is going to make

$129,000 to pension over 5 years
$30 bucks an hour
full time healthcare contributions
AND CAN STLL GO TO THE RPCD POSITION.

You keep talking :censored2: but part timers have families. They will take this great opportunity for their wife and kids. It’s not like they are stuck here they can still go to a RPCD position. It is far better than part time wages, pension and healthcare contributions. PERIOD.

If you vote no your keeping them part time longer. Think about it!

Who are these part-timers you are referring to that will be denied the opportunity to advance?

We can't get part-timers to apply for a FT driver job now, with 23 openings. They certainly will not step up to the plate for less money.

I'm sure there are small centers with very little retirement movement where a pt'er will benefit, but I think there are many where it just doesn't matter.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Just goes to show how scared the company and certain Union Locals are of this craptract getting voted down.

Wonder what the union is so afraid of, or what they stand to lose if the contract doesn't pass on the first vote? It's not hard, get rid of the 22.4 language, give a little more to dues paying part timers. Should be enough to get it to pass.
 

Days

Well-Known Member
Unless the contract specifically states something, you shouldn't just assume. The girl in the video says 22.4 won't replace RPCD's but it doesn't say that In the contract.

Tyler's points are still all valid and the difference between his video and this one is that Tyler is more skeptical of the language. I think it's better to be skeptical and cautious tbh. We don't want problems to arise down the road and our lack of skepticism is why the contract is no longer in our favor on certain issues
 
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542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Unless the contract specifically states something, you shouldn't just assume. The girl in the video says 22.4 won't replace RPCD's but it doesn't say that In the contract.

Check #3 out

Screenshot_20180905-224520.png
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Unless the contract specifically states something, you shouldn't just assume. The girl in the video says 22.4 won't replace RPCD's but it doesn't say that In the contract.

She criticizes Tyler for predicting things without a crystal ball, yet she does the exact same thing.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Replace as in hire 22.4 drivers to do work that should be performed by RPCD's.

So you mean instead of hiring another RPCD they will hire a 22.4? That will happen until they hit 25%.

Yes before someone jumps down my throat I know they can raise it later.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
And TCD's are supposed to be temporary, and now the company's abuse of the language is the reason for 22.4 being introduced. If we follow that arc, in the next contract, the company's abuse of 22.4 language will be the reason to phase out ground drivers. "The members really like 22.4, so we're making more of them, and no new ground drivers will be hired".


This definitely is the fear and rightfully so. It can happen but of course it would have to be voted in on the next contract.

I highly doubt the members will like more 22.4 drivers and less RPCDs though.
 

Days

Well-Known Member
The 22.4 positions just need the same protection as the RPCD's and should have a guarantee on inside work. If there isn't inside work, than its no different than a RPCD position except with less pay. Should be half hours inside and half outside and they should be able to file 9.5
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
The 22.4 positions just need the same protection as the RPCD's and should have a guarantee on inside work. If there isn't inside work, than its no different than a RPCD position except with less pay. Should be half hours inside and half outside and they should be able to file 9.5


Did you supplement add any language for 22.4s?

I ask because per our supplemental rider 22.4s will drive and only do inside work on a exception basis.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
This definitely is the fear and rightfully so. It can happen but of course it would have to be voted in on the next contract.

I highly doubt the members will like more 22.4 drivers and less RPCDs though.

But the IBT tells the members what the members want, and everyone who disagrees is part of a cabal looking to undermine the leadership for their own gain.
 

Ancient Alien

UPS Vacation
A 22.4 Drivers here is going to make

$129,000 to pension over 5 years
$30 bucks an hour
full time healthcare contributions
AND CAN STLL GO TO THE RPCD POSITION.

You keep talking :censored2: but part timers have families. They will take this great opportunity for their wife and kids. It’s not like they are stuck here they can still go to a RPCD position. It is far better than part time wages, pension and healthcare contributions. PERIOD.

If you vote no your keeping them part time longer. Think about it!
Exactly! You speak the truth. The 22.4's also will top out at $34.76 as they wait to bid into a RPCD job that will pay over $41 an hour. These are landmark huge pay scales for a company that employs over 400,000. Part time jobs that can make $30 an hour with no out-pocket pay for healthcare, plus part time jobs with a pension. **UNHEARD OF**

I remember @scratch talking about how bad the back log was last Peak. I wasn't signed on here and had no time to post yet would lurk/read his struggles almost nightly. This being right at the corporates doorstep. It sounded horrendous and now the IBT has a guarantee 5,000 Teamster UPS employees are going to be hired in the next 5-years and he's against the contract????

Jamie from 174 commented back on YouTube from all the mean spirited folks. Those people claim that voting no will get you more later. Like she said, if that was true, every contract in every union would automatically vote no.

Tyler's only leg to stand on imo. Is when he says 22.4's won't be able to sign up twice a month for a 8-hour request day. Oh well, 2 bad... so sad. New hires can't now anyways. These 22.4's have to earn their bones first just like you or I did our first 5-years. That's life. Tyler wants to hand the new hire $41 immediately and give him/her the same treatment or rights as a 30-year employee. It's only fair they start from the ground floor. That's how you don't become spoiled and feel you should be entitled to everything just because you made your 30 days.
 
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wide load

Starting wage is a waste of time.
How many drivers would work 70 hrs a week?during peak the hours go up but that is for a few weeks after all that is what we do provide a service during our Christmas rush
You forgot that it’s peak during the summer as well. Next contract they will want 70 from October 15 to January 15.
 
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