Warning Letter

[upschuck]

You cannot grieve a warning letter.
You can file a letter of protest.
You should file a letter of protest for every warning letter within 10 work days.
You should grieve intents. Intent to suspend or term.

The panel won't hear grievances for warning letters. You're steward is not full of .

How did you request off with no sick days earned? Asking for a day off under the table is considered a side deal. We don't do side deals.

You differentiate between the two of a "warning letter" and "Intents". We have no difference, hence the reason to grieve them. I have never even heard of that term before. Warning letter, Suspension, Termination. Ex is that every accident gets a warning letter stating if they get another accident in 9 months, then they would be suspended, and a third is terminated. So, a warning letter is an intent to suspend, or terminate.

 

[watdaflock?]

You sure feel entitled after being there for 11 months.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

I'll go ahead and explain my entire situation since there seem to be some knowledgeable people in here. You guys can tell me if I'm guilty and just wasting my time.

I've been working preload here for almost 11 months. During this entire time we haven't had a single shop steward working on our shift. So every time I have a problem or want to file a grievance I have to stay after my shift and track down one of the driver shop stewards. They seem really disinterested in anything but drivers issues. One time I was trying to file a grievance on supes working and the shop steward told me he was working it out with management behind the scenes and that we shouldn't file on them for 30 days.

Anyways, the warning letter I received was for calling out sick on July 3rd. I requested off for that day about a month in advance and was denied. The reasons they gave me were I had no entitlements and more senior people already had off.

I completely understand the no entitlement thing *IF* it is used equally across the board but I am almost positive it is not and I am being singled out.

But even putting this aside, how can they prove I wasn't sick? I've been working there 11 months and never once called out sick. You're telling me that the first time I call out sick, even if it happened to be a day I was denied off, they can just write me up and the union won't even have my back? That seems like a dangerous game if we're just gonna be rolling over like that.

I knew the target was on my back and they would try something like this on me but it's complete garbage that all the shop stewards are telling me no one is allowed to grieve warning letters and the one that was present in the meeting didn't even defend me.

You're leaving a lot of information out.

What does your attendance look like otherwise (ie. lates)? Did you have a doctor's note?

It looks incredibly bad to call in sick after being denied a day off. It looks even worse to call in sick after being denied a day off before a holiday weekend. That being said, if this was your first infraction you shouldn't have received a warning letter. There isn't really a set "attendance policy" for progressive discipline in the Atlantic Area supplement and there's some disparity between operations, but your shift should have a general policy ie. 3 occurrences in 90 days results in a warning letter.

You also requested the day off a month in advance. For future reference (in the Atlantic Area) management shouldn't approve any personal day requests until 7 days in advance (should be submitted in writing 8 days in advance) and by seniority. This prevents a junior employee from trying to "skip seniority" by asking for a day off before anyone else gets the chance.

It also sounds like your sort needs a steward. And it also sounds like you need to learn how to play the game. There's nothing wrong with kicking management in the nuts (it's fun) but you sure as hell don't hand them an easy win (calling in "sick" the day before a holiday) when you're causing them headaches.

 

[Dracula]

You have 11 months in, with no paid days on the books, and decided to bang in so that you could have a 3 day weekend? Warning letter deserved.

What a surprise...

Always file a grievance when you get a warning letter. I'm not sure what the others here are talking about, but a warning letter IS discipline. Why else would they issue it? That's why they send a copy to the union, too. If you don't file a grievance against a warning letter, and they later decide to suspend you--or worse--they will point out that you never protested a warning letter, meaning, you are almost admitting they were right. This is especially important when the letter is bogus.

The bottom line is, if you are a seniority employee, and have no attendance problem, it doesn't matter why you called in. They can harass you about it, but there is no discipline to be issued. Most supplements say three occurrences in a 90 day period before they can write you up.

Forget your steward. He sounds lazy and incompetent. Call, or better yet, go to your union hall and talk to your business agent.

 

[dumbmuthertrucker]

You have 11 months in, with no paid days on the books, and decided to bang in so that you could have a 3 day weekend? Warning letter deserved.

You're a ing ! You really need to get a hobby or something and leave BC. Please?!

 

[clean hairy]

I don't get not being able to grieve a warning letter. A warning letter is an accusation by the company against the employee, yes?
The employee is not permitted to dispute this accusation by filing a grievance?
Yet, if an employee files a grievance (Supervisor working, etc), the company is premitted to dispute the grievance.
Am I missing something here?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You're a ing ! You really need to get a hobby or something and leave BC. Please?!

Thanks for the kind words. I will take them under advisement.

The OP is the . He put in for the day, was denied, banged in and was then "surprised" when management responded appropriately with the well-deserved warning letter.

 

[Future]

I don't get not being able to grieve a warning letter. A warning letter is an accusation by the company against the employee, yes?
The employee is not permitted to dispute this accusation by filing a grievance?
Yet, if an employee files a grievance (Supervisor working, etc), the company is premitted to dispute the grievance.
Am I missing something here?

FUBAR

 

[UPSGUY72]

Just remember this simple rule if you need a day off call in. I you would like a day off ask gor one.

Or do what I do sometimes ask and when they tell you no tell them that's fine but I still won't be here on that day.

 

[ski or die]

It's part of progressive discipline. That's why "x" number of them in "x" months can get you suspended or worse. At least that's how it's done here. Everywhere is different I suppose.

This post is correct. The company is required to follow disciplinary actions. Which include verbal, written, suspension, dismissal. You must grieve the warning letter. Some stewards do not want to involve themselves of their time with another department other than their own. And some stewards will look the other way for management. Check around and discuss with other employees to find out steward with integrity. But definetly file on the letter. One occurrence in 11 months would be pretty hard for the company to fight. You don't want this on your record. When another fight comes somewhere down the road, it helps to have a clean record.

 

[Kicked Your Dog]

First, a warning letter means NOTHING. It's a piece of paper that states they're upset with your behavior. The contract does not recognize a warning letter as a form of discipline and it does not affect progressive discipline. MGMT still has to follow progressive discipline, per the contract. Therefore, you still have many more occasions before you can be disciplined, i.e. suspended, terminated. This is just a scare tactic and an effort to intimidate you.

So, "you were sick" and called in. There is nothing wrong with that. I would diagnose your situation as mental fatigue, with a day of R&R as your prescription. UPS can go pound sand. It's your MGMT team's effort to retaliate, and retaliation for you using your bargained work rights is 100% worthy of a harassment grievance. File. Don't be a whipping boy.

 

[AKCoverMan]

Or do what I do sometimes ask and when they tell you no tell them that's fine but I still won't be here on that day.

When I ask in advance I am asking for an approved paid day off. If they can't do that I tell them I can't work that day, and that I understand it will be unpaid and will be an attendance occurrence. Since I don't have an attendance problem that is the end of it.

Nine months later the occurrence falls off.

 

[UPSGUY72]

When I ask in advance I am asking for an approved paid day off. If they can't do that I tell them I can't work that day, and that I understand it will be unpaid and will be an attendance occurrence. Since I don't have an attendance problem that is the end of it.

Nine months later the occurrence falls off.

Getting paid or not for a day has effect on whether that day is a occurrence any day you take off is a occurrence.

Whether it's paid or not has nothing to do with whether they approve you having to day off or not. If you have sick days or personal days and you take a day off you should get paid for that day. Of course if you don't you can have them code it 26 no pay.

I take more days off then then the 5 sick and 3 personal days I get. In the past it was because they offered them to me this year it's because I'm going through a divorce. Either way they don't give me a hard time because they know I'm going to get the job done and I know about 26 routes in my center probably more than any other driver so I'm the go to guy when they get in a jam.

 

[AKCoverMan]

Getting paid or not for a day has effect on whether that day is a occurrence any day you take off is a occurrence.

No, if I ask for a paid day off in advance (i.e. using option day) and it's approved then it's not an occurrence. So I'd rather do that.

In our center they allow one person to schedule an option day on any given day. If the day is already taken when you ask for it then your request will be denied. If I really need the day and it's taken I tell them I can't work. I don't take sick pay because I'm not sick.

 

[ski or die]

Another driver and I were talking this morning. We discussed that every on car and center manager we have ever had, has either gotten fired or were given the old heave ho. Our files over the years have been stuffed by a lot of liars or falsehood tales. Me I have no idea what is in it. Is there anyway to remove all the make believe stories????

I worked in clerical. We had 6 union employees in one office that I worked at one time. One of the supervisors had the time clock behind his desk chiming like Big Ben. When he was replaced, the new supervisor sat down at the desk and pulled out these big stack of files and promptly threw everyone in the trash.
Also, the company did not follow procedure on this issue. A verbal warning is required before a warning letter. And for good measure, every center maybe somewhat different, but ours, you were allowed 5 sick days a year before you were considered an attendance problem so nothing was said until the 6th day. Myself, rarely used a sick day. Come in and sit at my desk no matter how bad I felt. My sick days were my R and R days.