Working off the clock

[over9five]

I don't see why the company would have to pay the grievance. If there is a call in list, AND it was used, then the company has to use sups. A grievance would be denied based on people on the call in list refusing to come in. In your case, the company tried to abide by the contract.

In my building it's the opposite. We show up, and there are sups working, yet no one on the call in list was called.

 

[BCFan]

amen you really are taking away another job(union job)--->BC

 

[Cole]

No union worth a grain of salt would back workers working for free. Shame on them for whinning about the drivers working for free, and not filing about the supervisors working. By the way, anyway can file and get paid for the sups working.

It's up to you to make management fix the problems with your load, but if you like working for free that's on you.

 

[Cole]

And if the preload is short, or a preloader gets sick and drivers are not available to load, is this a grievance situation? If all union employees are being used, and phone calls are made at 3:00 am and drivers refuse to come in, what the preload sup to do?

Call the local union for qualified help

Let's be realistic here. When people file for supervisors working it's usually for the free money. Not because the supervisor was working. Claiming it's for that reason is just to mask the fact that they are just taking advantage of the opportunity to get money for nothing. Money for a job that they probably would have refused to do if asked, yet, are filing for it when a sup does the work.

Actually that's not entirely true, the work those supervisors are doing was negotiated for our hourly people and not for those outside our bargaining units. The company will use these supervisors adnausem, to keep from having to hire.

Granted there are legitimate circumstances, where you don't have enough time, and have to work, but personals and vacations are nothing new.

 

[705red]

I disagree because every time they try and use the call in list no one will come in. Then drivers are asked and still no help. If the volume is killing us then a sup will help and only then will a driver complain or file, yet, still refuse to help. That tells me that they just want the free money. If they truly cared about sups working then they'd step in and work. When asked some will actually say "Too bad...so sad." And clock out. Then later file for a sup working. It is madness I tell ya. At least in the two buildings I've worked in.

The contract states that the company must exhaust all resources, are they calling in the unload or twilight shifts? The driver thats filing for sups working obviously wasnt asked because he would lose that grievance for refusing to perform that work. What i do is offer to do that work and when they deny me i file to pay the preloaders, because thats who is getting money taken out of their wallets not the drivers.

 

[omega man]

I'm not an advocate for free labor but reading this post and this well rehashed argument you see again that union rhetoric does everything it can to discourage individual achievment and pride in workmanship. It also does everything it can to discourage anyone trying to make their lives any easier. Often forgotten as we discuss the evil company squeezing the life blood out of its employees is that the union also benifits from our working you 12 hours a day..on the clock of course.

I have no problem with individual achievement and pride in workmanship or people trying to make their lives easier, but let them do it on the clock. After all, UPS makes their job more difficult to begin with. UPS runs their whole operation at bare minimums all the time, which creates these problems. You can't possibly advocate workers taking on these difficulties for free? Also, how does a Union benefit by a company working people 12 hours a day? It is only a windfall for corporations. It reduces jobs and benefits paid. Also, pension contributions stop after 40 hours.

 

[OVERDISPATCHED]

"UPS does not condone or permitt unpaid work or work done 'off the clock'."

yeah that is funny ! ! ! ha ha ha

go work in management on salary and then we will talk about that statement.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

The contract states that the company must exhaust all resources, are they calling in the unload or twilight shifts? The driver thats filing for sups working obviously wasnt asked because he would lose that grievance for refusing to perform that work. What i do is offer to do that work and when they deny me i file to pay the preloaders, because thats who is getting money taken out of their wallets not the drivers.

When reload is short of people the call in last is used first. The only other shift is preload so when they all refuse that leaves drivers as a last resort. Our sups will sometimes try and make drivers unload their own trucks as they come in but most are uncooperative about it so we end up being short handed anyway. What ever happened to "work as directed" ??? If volume is real high the sups have no choice but to step in and help. They usually do so until the lowest seniority driver comes and and will make him/her work for a little while. Before that happens there is usually a driver or two that comments about the sup working but when are offered the work they refuse. It's funny because the only time drivers will help is if they see another driver working. I always thought that was strange. Most of them want to go home after driving all day but on the occasion when one will help reload they all seem to want to work, yet, if that first driver doesn't help then they all refuse.

 

[Braveheart]

The teamsters hate it when a driver gets on his vehicle to make sure his load is properly set up and ready to go after the PCM. They of course want the company to hire enough drivers so that this type of preparation is unnecessary, but after 28 years with the company, I can tell you those extra drivers never showed up. Anything a driver can do to make sure he can make all those commit times and smooth out his day is just working smart. Why people think I should give myself an ulcer for the Teamsters is beyond me.

You say after the pcm and that is ok since you are being paid. It is the off the clock before work or during lunch day in and day out that we are talking about. Once in a while due to family needs or to get off early for the big game is one thing. But to do it all the time and deliver through lunch is not only stealing from yourself but your fellow man. 8 Drivers skip their lunch and now they can eliminate YOUR JOB!!!! Sorting all through lunch is making those who will not work for free look bad while you give away $10,000 of your own overtime money. UPS increases stops per car and stops per load and no one is getting any younger. Stopo working for free.

 

[Braveheart]

Nothing at all wrong with it.
Unless of course you consider....
its against company policy, and teamster policy.
Well Hell, thats one rule that isnt enforced as it makes the preload look better, coz you are working for free, and none of your time is figured into anything.

When I was on the preload I loved it, except the fact that they were taking away my work, which is why UPS didnt think we needed extra help coz hey, we got 15 drivers giving the preload 7.5 hours of their time to get the job done. But at that time I didnt realize the big picture.

I see the pros and cons and we have drivers at the am meeting drenched. So its not like they are doing it secretively.

I just think its wrong. Do they call and say they need you? No you just think to make your life easier, youll just give a little more, and what do you get in return, a better day? Nope more work.
Knock yourselves out, I wont do it.

Well said. They work for free, nobody fixes preload, no additional preloaders hired, they are still away from home an extra hour only in the am instead of pm. I sleep in the extra hour and I am not sweating at the pcm. The air drivers like me because I am not going to work unsafe and I just hand off the couple I can't make every other day. The air driver gets more reps and makes some money while I can calmly deliver my airs and all are on time. If the driver works for free the preloader gets sent home early with less money in his or her pocket too. They are already underpaid as it is with their start times pushed back because drivers work for free.

 

[Braveheart]

I guess I'm an idiot then.

I spend 10 minutes before PCM going through every package on my truck. Although my pre-loader is great, I still like to go through everything.

Plus four out of five days a week (sometimes five out of five) I am asked to take a split. I would prefer to get those packages myself. I know the area and know what I can handle on that day and like to keep it as tight as possible.

All of this just helps me with my day and working before my start time helps me get all my air delivered on time and helps me get everything off my truck before our stupid ass international air meet.

I take great pride in doing my job well.

I show up at the center about 45 minutes before our start time. I spend 15 minutes working and the other 30 socializing with the other drivers. If they would pay me for that time I would gladly accept it. But I wont hold my breath for that.

All you have to do is get to work a little early and download EDD. You can sit down, sip some coffee, count your stops, check out your airs, ask for a split to be moved or corrected, change the air savers to resi all while your ass is planted. Sounds like you are early to start if needed and able to leave early if permitted, all while being prepared and not having to lift a single box.

 

[Braveheart]

I'm freaking nuts? See my signature line

Apparently I work in the wrong geographical area. I am not making anywhere near $41 an hour. I'm only two weeks into seniority. Even at time and a half I am making just a little over half of that.

Let me explain where I am coming from on this.

UPS is the first company I have worked for that is union. For the past 15 years or so I have been self employed as a photographer. (get my nic now?) During that time, if I didn't show up early to each assignment I would be SOL when the start time arrived. Old habits die hard I guess. Maybe after I have been a good 'ol boy for a while I will be able to change my habits but until then, this is who I am.

I would like to point out that I am nowhere near the only one in our center doing this.



Since this was brought up in another post in this thread let me ask you guys. How do you take your full hour for lunch? For my first 90 shifts I was code 05 so I really didn't care. But since being switched over to code 06 I have tried to take an hour, but have not succeeded at it yet. I start to get antsy at about 20 minutes and bail after about 30 or 40. Even reading a newspaper doesn't work for me.

Try to call a family member or an old friend to catch up. I usually have a lot of important calls to make so I do it during lunch.

 

[Braveheart]

I would do it to get home earlier, but I load my own truck and have the benefit of knowing exactly what is in package car and where it is loaded. 10 minutes in the morning equals 25 minutes getting finished in the PM. The decision would be the trade off between making an extra $ or spending time with your family. You can make money but you cannot make time.

When the vacation money, college fund, anniversary savings or retirement come up short, find a mirror. You just gave away $5,000.

 

[Braveheart]

Why is it that everyone is so worried about what EVERYONE ELSE is doing? What ever happened to mind your own business? If a driver wants to come in early and pull off misloads, that's their business. Do you guys look at other driver's numbers to see who made bonus, scratched, or didn't plan out? Why not just come in at your start time, grab your board, and focus your energy on the route your running?

BTW Rod, UPS has a zero tolerance policy on workplace "ass woopin"

When drivers work for free they also cut routes and the guy who did not mind working 9.5 to 10 hours a day is now working 11 to 12 hours a day and a another guy is sent home laid off. It is our business when your actions negatively impact us.

 

[over9five]

Excellent posts, Braveheart! Couldn't have said it better.

 

[brown bomber]

I thought that it was against both UPS and TEAMSTERS work rules to work off the clock....I don't get it...there are rules for the drivers who bust A%#..don't get follow-ups..take care of their people..take the time to understand them and answer their questions,,and basically give a DAMN

then we have the others..the chosen few (about 10) in my center...who have the other set of rules..that group runs anywhere from 1.5 - 3.0 hrs. early...I don't understand how this is possible

I begged my ctr. mgr. to show me how I could do the same...
but there's no way in hell that would happen..some drivers get the bone..others get the bonus

 

[Griff]

then we have the others..the chosen few (about 10) in my center...who have the other set of rules..that group runs anywhere from 1.5 - 3.0 hrs. early...I don't understand how this is possible

1) Sprinting to and from the truck (Not jogging or brisk walk)
2) Not DRing correctly + signing for all your customers.
3) Bulkhead open, leaving rear door open in business parks where you hit several docks.
4) Pre-sheet all committ's and deliver them as you go.
5) Skip all breaks.

This is the normal recipe for the batch of people we have running 2-4hrs under everyday. They look the other way for these runners because they look great on paper (all they care about) and with these people breaking rules it saves them a few routes everyday. It's just like anything else, everything they say ends in a big one-eyed wink.

The "fastest" driver we have here does anywhere from 180-220 stops / 270-330 pkgs (80-85 miles) every single day. No idea what his pickup schedule is like, but he's back in building at 2PM every day like clockwork. This guy has been known to do upwards of 500 stops at Christmas time.

 

[toonertoo]

Speed and meth come to mind. But probaly not, maybe those runners should retrain all of us. Heck Im open to relearning If I can go home at 2pm. Show me how, I know old dogs can learn new tricks.

 

[brown bomber]

tooner..I agree..just show me how..even an old dog can learn new tricks

 

[satellitedriver]

1) Sprinting to and from the truck (Not jogging or brisk walk)
2) Not DRing correctly + signing for all your customers.
3) Bulkhead open, leaving rear door open in business parks where you hit several docks.
4) Pre-sheet all committ's and deliver them as you go.
5) Skip all breaks.

This is the normal recipe for the batch of people we have running 2-4hrs under everyday. They look the other way for these runners because they look great on paper (all they care about) and with these people breaking rules it saves them a few routes everyday. It's just like anything else, everything they say ends in a big one-eyed wink.

The "fastest" driver we have here does anywhere from 180-220 stops / 270-330 pkgs (80-85 miles) every single day. No idea what his pickup schedule is like, but he's back in building at 2PM every day like clockwork. This guy has been known to do upwards of 500 stops at Christmas time.

So you are saying this guy does 50 SPORH during Christmas and 40 on a average basis? WOW!!! It just ain't possible. That equals 1 delivery for every 1.5 minute.
If he can do it I want a blood transfusion from him.