FedEx Ground

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I’ve been sued by a driver DQd by FedEx. It wasn’t a huge deal. They had too many accidents but they sued for everything under the sun, racism, discrimination, wages etc. That’s what insurance is for, got it tossed eventually just took a while. FedEx was never involved, they didn’t need to be.

Out of court settlement?

 

[It will be fine]

Out of court settlement?

Nope. I have employment practices litigation insurance. Made it possible to pay for a proper defense without anything more out of pocket.

 

[bacha29]

I’ve been sued by a driver DQd by FedEx. It wasn’t a huge deal. They had too many accidents but they sued for everything under the sun, racism, discrimination, wages etc. That’s what insurance is for, got it tossed eventually just took a while. FedEx was never involved, they didn’t need to be.

Oh YOUR employee was in the mind of Fedex involved in too many accidents despite the fact that YOU not THEM is the one paying the insurance premiums. Yeah, i saw quite a bit of that. He's YOUR employee when it was in the best interest of fedex but THEIR employee when it came to enforcing company rules which are in many ways similar to those imposed on their own employees.

 

[bacha29]

I don’t take issue with their qualifications for drivers or helpers. It’s a standard practice for truck leases to a motor carrier. It’s not a real issue that has much impact on how I operate. I can see how it was a bigger deal when my operation was much smaller. One driver made a big difference then. These days I don’t much care if an applicant gets denied or if one breaks the rules and gets themselves DQ’d. It doesn’t change my business materially at all.

And who's rules are they? Certainly not yours most of the time.

 

[bbsam]

Ok so going back to the original question of "controlling the environment" what you just explained in itself is your acceptance of their control on your business. It's theirs essentially. Their specifications and your acceptance.

But that’s a matter that lawyers have been over time and time again. So whether you or I or or anyone else likes it, the legal system hasn’t seen fit to make X cease and desist.

 

[bbsam]

But that’s a matter that lawyers have been over time and time again. So whether you or I or or anyone else likes it, the legal system hasn’t seen fit to make X cease and desist.

Also, what makes bacha or anyone else here an expert on how much control X can have? Because we think it’s too much? That’s an opinion and good luck fighting with that.

 

[59 Dano]

Assembly and duplication of an already established model is not the same as one that is born out of that person's own vision and creativity. And the former is what FXG contracting is all about.

This is when you start. This is when you stop. This is what you drive. This is what you wear. This is where you go. This is how you do it. Everything right down to the shoes you wear is in full compliance and modeling with the corporate vision and image it seeks to parade in front of the American public. The only exception is the contractor's name in tiny letters down in the mud and slop , a place where the fewest number of people possible will see it.

I suppose you could say that they're lucky to be able to get even that much recognition. Talked to a Custom Critical guy today. No distinguishing characteristics or third party identification of any kind that would allow a person to understand that the vehicle and the driver is a third party entity.

And today's excuse for why "you don't own a business"? It's got someone else's logo on it, even though you bought the trucks, bought the uniforms, hired the guys, pay their salaries, etc.

 

[59 Dano]

Also, what makes bacha or anyone else here an expert on how much control X can have? Because we think it’s too much? That’s an opinion and good luck fighting with that.

He had that one route, I guess he's an expert.

 

[floridays]

And today's excuse for why "you don't own a business"? It's got someone else's logo on it, even though you bought the trucks, bought the uniforms, hired the guys, pay their salaries, etc.

They do have a business, at the discretion of one party to the agreement.
It's kinda like a divorce, only much more damaging to the jilted in the case of a ground contractor.

If the ground contractor loses FedEx does he have a business?
Agreed, he still has trucks, his employees still have their uniforms, the contractor still owes outstanding payroll to his employees add to that unemployment if he cannot keep them employed.

The contractor still has debt obligations that do not vanish with this divorce.

If this contractor cannot meet the obligations he signed to, by cultivating new customers does he have a business?

Does he have a failed business?

I'm only asking questions, I'm not planting my flag on either side.

I will say anyone that would sign a legally binding contract with FedEx Ground without representation negotiating the contract is a fool.

 

[bacha29]

They do have a business, at the discretion of one party to the agreement.
It's kinda like a divorce, only much more damaging to the jilted in the case of a ground contractor.

If the ground contractor loses FedEx does he have a business?
Agreed, he still has trucks, his employees still have their uniforms, the contractor still owes outstanding payroll to his employees add to that unemployment if he cannot keep them employed.

The contractor still has debt obligations that do not vanish with this divorce.

If this contractor cannot meet the obligations he signed to, by cultivating new customers does he have a business?

Does he have a failed business?

I'm only asking questions, I'm not planting my flag on either side.

I will say anyone that would sign a legally binding contract with FedEx Ground without representation negotiating the contract is a fool.

Spot on man. The depressed economy of the area we served, the shrinking supply of healthy and qualified labor plus a flimsy contract that contained risk factors that in and of themselves made expanding unattractive to we 3 day 1's . So we handed any spun off work areas to anyone who wanted to have a go at it.Some even took on more routes. Well,, they were all soon gone and we 3 were still there And in the end 3 new entrepreneur wannabe's came in and wanted to buy our contracts and to our complete surprise offered us money for them. We weren't going to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Now here it is a few years later . There all gone except 1 and he has limited his scale of operation to just the minimum required level.
Oh BTW here it is pushing 9PM Eastern and a HD just arrived in the neighbor hood to dump boxes. Looks like he's got wires arcing because his backup lights are flashing like 4 ways. Poor kid.

 

[It will be fine]

Spot on man. The depressed economy of the area we served, the shrinking supply of healthy and qualified labor plus a flimsy contract that contained risk factors that in and of themselves made expanding unattractive to we 3 day 1's . So we handed any spun off work areas to anyone who wanted to have a go at it.Some even took on more routes. Well,, they were all soon gone and we 3 were still there And in the end 3 new entrepreneur wannabe's came in and wanted to buy our contracts and to our complete surprise offered us money for them. We weren't going to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Now here it is a few years later . There all gone except 1 and he has limited his scale of operation to just the minimum required level.
Oh BTW here it is pushing 9PM Eastern and a HD just arrived in the neighbor hood to dump boxes. Looks like he's got wires arcing because his backup lights are flashing like 4 ways. Poor kid.

Still cashing the checks from the successful guy that bought you out?

 

[floridays]

Spot on man. The depressed economy of the area we served, the shrinking supply of healthy and qualified labor plus a flimsy contract that contained risk factors that in and of themselves made expanding unattractive to we 3 day 1's . So we handed any spun off work areas to anyone who wanted to have a go at it.Some even took on more routes. Well,, they were all soon gone and we 3 were still there And in the end 3 new entrepreneur wannabe's came in and wanted to buy our contracts and to our complete surprise offered us money for them. We weren't going to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Now here it is a few years later . There all gone except 1 and he has limited his scale of operation to just the minimum required level.
Oh BTW here it is pushing 9PM Eastern and a HD just arrived in the neighbor hood to dump boxes. Looks like he's got wires arcing because his backup lights are flashing like 4 ways. Poor kid.

Did you contract without counsel?

 

[floridays]

Still cashing the checks from the successful guy that bought you out?

If FedEX, for whatever reason refuses to offer a renewal do you have a business?

If so, exactly what would your business look like?

In an earlier post you took great pride in describing the business you have built, minus FedEx ground, would you have a business?

I'm offering questions, only questions.

@bacha29, @It will be fine has blocked me, please refer my questions.

 

[floridays]

Nope. I have employment practices litigation insurance. Made it possible to pay for a proper defense without anything more out of pocket.

Litigation insurance, now that is a funny notion.
You may have been stuck with a clown like me.

 

[floridays]

I expect my drivers to do their jobs. Drivers won’t pay my bills like FedEx does. If a driver is in the right I’ll do what I can to protect their job, if they break the rules I couldn’t care less.

Drivers do pay your bills. You have it mixed up. If your drivers one day decide they aren't going to perform and seven days later they are on the same page, will FedEx pay your bills?

 

[floridays]

They can’t fire your people, they can disqualify them from providing services for FedEx.

Your empire services other contracts or works for hire?
If they disqualify your drivers they effectively fired them.
Do you have lawn boys, pool cleaners or the like?
If Fedex disqualified one of your employees exactly what would you have him/her do the next day they reported to work?

Simple question.

 

[XEQaF]

I expect my drivers to do their jobs. Drivers won’t pay my bills like FedEx does. If a driver is in the right I’ll do what I can to protect their job, if they break the rules I couldn’t care less.

I’ve been sued by a driver DQd by FedEx. It wasn’t a huge deal. They had too many accidents but they sued for everything under the sun, racism, discrimination, wages etc. That’s what insurance is for, got it tossed eventually just took a while. FedEx was never involved, they didn’t need to be.

I would agree if someone who unequivocally broke the rules that were plain as day then for sure those are the consequences, but if a driver was disqualified by FedEx, not the contractor and decides he wants to take FedEx to court that would be an interesting follow.

As far as the statement that a driver won't pay your bills; if they don't show up for you day in day out you won't pay your bills, it's that simple

 

[XEQaF]

Also, what makes bacha or anyone else here an expert on how much control X can have? Because we think it’s too much? That’s an opinion and good luck fighting with that.

The discussion was more about where the balance of power lies and ultimately a contractor is powerless in controlling "his business" not so much about the legal system and the semantics used in the courts.

I believe it comes down to being informed and what you are willing to accept. It is an opinion and it is a tolerance level of what you can or can not accept working with a company that to me clearly doesn't want to lose the balance of power

 

[XEQaF]

If FedEX, for whatever reason refuses to offer a renewal do you have a business?

If so, exactly what would your business look like?

In an earlier post you took great pride in describing the business you have built, minus FedEx ground, would you have a business?

I'm offering questions, only questions.

@bacha29, @It will be fine has blocked me, please refer my questions.

Your "business" is all dependent on what direction FDX decides to go in and you basically react to their operational decisions. The only way you can scale your business is if your service area grows or by acquiring more routes both being at the control and discretion of FDX. So your "business" is essentially a cost center. You can increase your bottom line only by controlling your costs not by offering attractive tariff rates or drumming up sales etc.
I say the best you can do is use this steady stream cash flow to fund another business so that you won't depend or be at the mercy of managers who really don't understand your "business"

 

[It will be fine]

I would agree if someone who unequivocally broke the rules that were plain as day then for sure those are the consequences, but if a driver was disqualified by FedEx, not the contractor and decides he wants to take FedEx to court that would be an interesting follow.

As far as the statement that a driver won't pay your bills; if they don't show up for you day in day out you won't pay your bills, it's that simple

A DQd driver trying to take FedEx to court would get tossed quickly. It would take some deep pockets to fund that type of endeavor and there’s very little gain.

A driver that doesn’t show up won’t work for me and is easily replaced. This seems like a scale issue, when you operated each driver was vital to getting the job done daily. Once you get past that it’s a different perspective.