guns
- Thread starter moreluck
- Start date
Babagounj
Strength through joy
Ok, show me your proof .
island1fox
Well-Known Member
bbsam,
NO problem. We can politely disagree again. This hero's actions will not be headlined because it does not fit in with the yelling right now about the evil of guns.
Even you stated you had to look for the story.
We have agreed that we all can work for solutions but all news should be reported. I was wondering why the idiot in the Mall did not do more damage.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
It probably hasnt been reported for the simple reason that the massacre in Conneticut occured 2 days later, with a far higher death toll, and the media naturally focused on that. Also, the fact that lives may have been saved by a person with a concealed weapon permit is not one that our traditionally anti-gun media would care to report in the first place.
Another piece of information that has sort of been overlooked...is the fact that the shooter fired over 60 shots yet (thankfully) only hit 3 people before turning the gun on himself. Many of the rounds were actually fired up at the ceiling. The media has made a big deal out of the fact that he used a so-called "assault rifle" with a 30 round magazine, but the reality is that he could have used a revolver or a shotgun or pretty much any sort of firearm and the outcome (2 dead one injured) would have been the same.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
TOS,
If I stated that its only a "matter of time" before anyone who practices the Muslim religion commits an act of terrorism, you would rightfully call me out for being a bigot. 2 billion Muslims didnt kill anyone today.
Why is it then OK for you to engage in bigotry against gun owners? 200 million American gun owners didnt kill anyone today, either.
Your ignorance and fear of guns has given rise in your mind to the false belief that an otherwise sane, rational and peaceful person will inevitably become a bloodthirsty murderer once you place a firearm in his or her hand. I find it odd that you (correctly) speak out on this forum against bigotry when it is directed at Muslims or gays or people of color...yet when it comes to gun owners your bigotry is overwhelming.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I cant handle little kids getting shot either, but if we want to get serious about actually solving the problem then we need to deal with facts.
The massacres at Thurston High School, Columbine, Virginia Tech, the theater in Aurora and now the Sandy Hook elementary were all committed with weapons that had been legally purchased, either by the shooters themselves or by family members or friends. Whether or not these weapons were "registered" in a database somewhere would have had no difference in the outcomes. A gun in the hands of a murderer is made no less dangerous simply by being registered.
To me the much more relevant commonality in all of these massacres...is the fact that every single one of them took place in a designated and posted "gun free zone." If we as a society are serious about putting a stop to the insanity then perhaps we should start by finally admitting to the fact that the so-called "gun free zones" accomplish nothing except for providing would-be-killers with a conveniently situated group of unarmed and helpless victims.
The time for "feel good" measures such as registration, waiting periods, high-capacity magazine bans, gun free zones etc is OVER. We need to turn our focus on to what WORKS rather than to what we WISHED would work. The sad and brutal reality of the situation is that once a lunatic has armed himself and made the decision to kill, the only way to neutralize the threat is for another armed person to kill him first.
menotyou
bella amicizia
One of the best comments I have heard from the box on the wall, yet.
"If people would put down the remote and hug their children more often, including their 20 yr old children, this 20 yr old child might not have done this."
I didn't catch the gentleman's name but, it was Pierce Morgan's first guest tonite.
"If people would put down the remote and hug their children more often, including their 20 yr old children, this 20 yr old child might not have done this."
I didn't catch the gentleman's name but, it was Pierce Morgan's first guest tonite.
bbsam,
NO problem. We can politely disagree again. This hero's actions will not be headlined because it does not fit in with the yelling right now about the evil of guns.
Even you stated you had to look for the story.
We have agreed that we all can work for solutions but all news should be reported. I was wondering why the idiot in the Mall did not do more damage.
I'm taking this story with a grain of salt. What bystander just happened to be standing around this maniac? And if that is all true when is it safe to take the shot? And if the bystander is always a concern then where does the hero shooter come into play?
Here's the story.bbsam,
NO problem. We can politely disagree again. This hero's actions will not be headlined because it does not fit in with the yelling right now about the evil of guns.
Even you stated you had to look for the story.
We have agreed that we all can work for solutions but all news should be reported. I was wondering why the idiot in the Mall did not do more damage.
The reason it's not getting coverage (not even from FOX) is that there seems to be no corroboration for it from the cops or anyone else. Not saying that it didn't happen, but as near as I can tell there don't seem to be any other witnesses. Also note that Mr Meli is not claiming that the guy ran away shot himself because he saw Nick Meli with a gun, that twist is all coming from bloggers who weren't there. According to Meli he got behind a pillar, drew a bead on the guy, didn't shoot because he was worried about bystanders, then went and hid in a store. Maybe witnesses will come forward or security camera film will turn up that supports his story, but it seems odd that he didn't at least talk to the police.
This statement shows precisely what is "WRONG" with gun owners thinking. You say several things in this post that point out your "FAILURES" to accept the reality of the situation.
First, you said "The media has made a big deal out of the fact that he used a so-called "assault rifle" with a 30 round magazine"
Your use of the words "SO-CALLED" demonstrates your denial of the facts. The MILITARY calls these weapons "ASSAULT WEAPONS", the WORLD calls them ASSAULT weapons, but YOU and the NRA and every other gun owner wants to call them something LESS than what they are.
What exactly do you call them? A hunting rifle? A duck hunt gun?
This shooter used 30 round clips "taped together" creating 60 round mags that could be changed in seconds. What do you propose the creation of this weapon was intended for? Hunting? Bird shooting? Shooting cans?
This weapon is a "people killer". Its among dozens of "people killers" that have NO BUSINESS in private persons hands.
You refuse to admit that this weapon and this weapon ALONE played the largest part in the number of deaths at the school. Yes, the shooter pulled the trigger, but the design of the gun and the bullets completed the job and YOU refuse to accept these facts.
"SO-CALLED" , its a WEAK statement from gun freaks who are so afraid of society, that they will do everything possible to make excuses for the worst mass shooting of children in our country.
YOU my friend, are a part of the problem, and NOT a part of the solution. Your insane need to have a gun on your person at all times is troubling for people like me.
I DO NOT FEAR GUNS, I FEAR the people who have them. Gun owners continue to kill americans by the thousands each year in this country and people like you turn your heads and look the other way.
I only wish people like YOU were FORCED to sit and look at all the autopsy photos of each of these children killed and look at what you purport to want to protect. Your hands are just as dirty as Adam Lanza for "downplaying" the description of the Bushmaster .223
Yes, any gun owner can use a standard pistol or standard shotgun and create a mass shooting, its been done before, but the survival rate of something like that is expodentially HIGHER than it is with ASSAULT WEAPONS.
The sad reality comes down to the fact that NOTHING anyone says will strike you as IMPORTANT enough to change your mind. Your constant fear and bravado will NEVER allow you to be rational about guns.
Knowing everything about guns doesnt make you a safer gun owner, as one simple blowjob of your best friend will throw all that knowledge out the door and you'll become a "family annilator". It happens everyday, every month, every year.
Everyone has a "trigger", and when "Triggered" the first solution for a gun owner is to grab a gun and shoot people.
Peace
TOS
klein
Für Meno :)
moreluck
golden ticket member
brett636
Well-Known Member
Myth: Gun registration works
Fact: Not in California. California has had handgun registration since 1909 and it has not any impact of violent crime rate.
Fact: Not in New Zealand. They repealed their gun registration law in the 1980s after police acknowledged its worthlessness.
Fact: Not in Australia. One report states, “It seems just to be an elaborate system of arithmetic with no tangible aim. Probably, and with the best of intentions, it may have been thought, that if it were known what firearms each individual in Victoria owned, some form of control may be exercised, and those who were guilty of criminal misuse could be readily identified. This is a fallacy, and has been proven not to be the case.” In addition, cost to Australian taxpayers exceeded $200 million annually.
Fact: Not in Canada. More than 20,000 Canadian gun-owners have publicly refused to register their firearms. Many others (as many as 300,00097) are silently ignoring the law.
• The provincial governments of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba have dumped both the administration and the enforcement of all federal gun-control laws right back into Ottawa's lap, throwing the Canadian government into a paper civil war.
• And all at a cost more than 1,646% the original projected cost98 (the original cost was estimated at 5% of all police expenditures in Canada99). "The gun registry as it sits right now is causing law abiding citizens to register their guns but it does nothing to take one illegal gun off the street or to increase any type of penalty for anybody that violates any part of the legislation," according to Al Koenig, President, Calgary Police Association.100 "We have an ongoing gun crisis, including firearms-related homicides lately in Toronto, and a law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them," according to Toronto police Chief Julian Fantino .
• The system is so bad that six Canadian provinces (British Columbia joins Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Nova Scotia, and Ontario) are refusing to prosecute firearm owners who fail to register.
• A bill to abolish the registry has been tabled (introduced) in the Canadian Parliament, which if passed, would eliminate the registry completely.
• A Saskatchewan MP who endorsed the long gun registry when first proposed has introduced legislation to abolish it stating that, “[the registry] has not saved one life in Canada, and it has been a financial sinkhole … absolutely useless in helping locate the 255,000 people who have been prohibited from owning firearms by the courts.”
Fact: Not in Germany. The Federal Republic of Germany began comprehensive gun registration in 1972. The government estimated that between 17,000,000 and 20,000,000 guns were to be registered, but only 3,200,000 surfaced, leaving 80% unaccounted for.
Fact: Not in Boston, Cleveland, or California. These cities and state require registration of “assault weapons.” The compliance rate in Boston and Cleveland is about 1%.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Criminals across the country seen nodding in approval.
Via The Hill:
Via The Hill:
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) on Wednesday afternoon urged people to turn in their guns, arguing it would be an appropriate response to last week’s mass shooting in Newtown, Conn.
“I would personally just say to those who are listening, maybe you want to turn in your guns,” Ja
ckson Lee said on the House floor. “Oh no, I’m not going to take your guns. But look at what Dick’s Sporting Goods did … they wanted to be part of the solution and part of America.”
Dick’s Sporting Goods announced this week that it would stop selling and displaying guns at its store closest to Newtown, and would suspend the sale of modern sporting rifles nation-wide out of respect for the victims of the shooting.
“I would personally just say to those who are listening, maybe you want to turn in your guns,” Ja
ckson Lee said on the House floor. “Oh no, I’m not going to take your guns. But look at what Dick’s Sporting Goods did … they wanted to be part of the solution and part of America.”
Dick’s Sporting Goods announced this week that it would stop selling and displaying guns at its store closest to Newtown, and would suspend the sale of modern sporting rifles nation-wide out of respect for the victims of the shooting.
klein
Für Meno :)
Fact : Add the entire EU and all other westernized adavnced countries all together, and they still have well less gun crime and murders than that of the USA.
Btw, a gun crises in Canada, is toitally different than that of a US city.
Calgary for example, with over 1.2 Million population has yet to hit 25 murders this year, but for us, it's considered a crises already !
Btw, a gun crises in Canada, is toitally different than that of a US city.
Calgary for example, with over 1.2 Million population has yet to hit 25 murders this year, but for us, it's considered a crises already !
brett636
Well-Known Member
Myth: Countries with strict gun control have less crime
Fact: Countries with the strictest gun-control laws also tended to have the highest homicide rates.
Fact: According to the U.N., as of 2005, Scotland was the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America. Violent crime there has doubled over the last 20 years. 3% of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2% in America.
Fact: “... the major surveys completed in the past 20 years or more provides no evidence of any relationship between the total number of legally held firearms in society and the rate of armed crime. Nor is there a relationship between the severity of controls imposed in various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists.”
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