guns

Nimnim

The Nim
All I am saying is that protecting something like assault weapons is ridiculous at the cost of opening up "mental health" as the determinant. What does that mean and what will it mean 10 years from now? I'm even a little surprised that the right is suddenly a fan of science. Until now it's. Been noticeably lacking in speaking of social issues.

Actually assault weapons are banned for the majority of the public unless they want to go through tons of regulations. Just because the weapon looks scary doesn't mean it's an assault weapon.

Now the bigger issue is how many gun related deaths there are annually not the mass shootings. Rough figures, around 32000 in 2011. Mass shootings less than 2k. So if people are looking to reduce "gun violence" it's not in attempting to stop mass shootings, but in properly enforcing existing gun laws and making sentences stricter for those that commit gun related crimes. That won't completely fix this issue, no, but it'd do better than attempting to stop one nutjob who illegally acquires a weapon and kills 15 people, vs 100 people who illegally acquire a weapon and kill 120 people.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member


Another POV on Hitler and Gun Control.

Funny how this seems to follow a certain pattern in that certain classes can't have guns while certain classes can. Even in our own modern state, the current control solution is not to once and for all get totally rid of said guns (swords into plowshares is a goal worthwhile IMO) but it's to make sure that certain "undesirable" classes don't have access to them.

Considering the racist legacy of gun control in this country, I would assert there is also likely a racist underpinning to the current move of gun control and just like they have a man of color in charge to now invade resource rich Africa (you think a white/european type US President could get away with such a bold move?) this same man of color can be used to hide the continuing racist intent of gun control to protect national hierarchy of power and the every consolidating wealth that is being achieved in it's name. Gun control is a tool of the 1% as is shown historically and those who support it are nothing more than the lapdogs of the 1%ers.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Actually assault weapons are banned for the majority of the public unless they want to go through tons of regulations. Just because the weapon looks scary doesn't mean it's an assault weapon.

Now the bigger issue is how many gun related deaths there are annually not the mass shootings. Rough figures, around 32000 in 2011. Mass shootings less than 2k. So if people are looking to reduce "gun violence" it's not in attempting to stop mass shootings, but in properly enforcing existing gun laws and making sentences stricter for those that commit gun related crimes. That won't completely fix this issue, no, but it'd do better than attempting to stop one nutjob who illegally acquires a weapon and kills 15 people, vs 100 people who illegally acquire a weapon and kill 120 people.
I agree. So why bring "mental health" into the arena. Even with the existing laws, mental health is such a wide field and highly subjective. What websites do you visit that might have officials wondering about your mental health? Who determines levels of mental health? And since we know gun violence will not end, how tight does the acceptable mental health profile become?
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I agree. So why bring "mental health" into the arena. Even with the existing laws, mental health is such a wide field and highly subjective. What websites do you visit that might have officials wondering about your mental health? Who determines levels of mental health? And since we know gun violence will not end, how tight does the acceptable mental health profile become?
Obama wants your doctor to ask you if you have guns..........................what??????.

Why bring in mental health? really?? It's all about a person's mental state!!!
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
if4niq.jpg

you have stumbled onto it. Where does mental health end. You've joked about regulating all these killers. With mental health parameters it all becomes possible.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Obama wants your doctor to ask you if you have guns..........................what??????.

Why bring in mental health? really?? It's all about a person's mental state!!!

there are all kinds of thins that will define a person's mental health. What is and isn't off limits.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
They say politics makes strange bedfellows. Resistance to a tyrannical government that would disarm the population puts moonbat icon Malcolm X on the same page as patriots:
“The Constitution of the United States of America clearly affirms the right of every American citizen to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution. The history of unpunished violence against our people clearly indicates that we must be prepared to defend ourselves or we will continue to be a defenseless people at the mercy of a ruthless and violent racist mob.”

Whoever is the victim and whoever the aggressor, Mr. X was correct; the right of self-defense is unalienable. If you have been deprived of it, you cannot call yourself free.
 

anonymous4

Well-Known Member
Nimnim did I read your post correctly or did you say 32,000 gun deaths in 2011? I assume there is confusion on my part and I didn't read it as intended because those numbers are WAY OFF. In 2011 there were 12,500 TOTAL homicides in America. About 8,500 by firearms. Further dividing the homicides we get the following numbers by weapon type:

Handguns: 6,220
Rifles: 323
Shotguns: 356

The rest of the homicides are comprised of "other guns/not stated" (1,600), knives (1,600), personal weapons(hands, feet whatever, 728), blunt objects (496).

Okay, I believe those homicide numbers INCLUDE justifiable police shootings and civilian defense shootings. I don't know the numbers but off my head around 700 for police and 400 for citizens. All of these numbers I put up are rounded and not exact as I can't find them listed in row and don't want to copy, paste and organize it all. Close enough. So we have about 7,000 total firearm homicides. Look at how many of those occurred in inner city and are gang related. Again can't be troubled to do 100% accurate math at this second but it is around 1/3rd of that number. Gun homicides and homicide in general has been dropping since the mid 90's.

Look at states without bad inner city gand problems and their gun homicide rate per 100,000 is actually less than similar industrialized nations with sweeping gun control. Pretty amazing, huh? Yet you won't hear this on mainstream media spew.

Another interesting point about this numbers: look at the rifle deaths. Hardly anything compared to handgun homicide yet Obama is on this "rapid killing ability" of "assault-styled" weapons. Err, assault styled rifle? What the hell is that and how is it more dangerous than any other rifle or semi-auto handgun? Answer... it's not but that is the point. It is a fear tactic against scary black "military-styled" semi-automatic rifles to try and sway sheep into supporting his legislation. He cannot argue numbers so instead he uses this tactic. An AR-15 isn't putting out any more rounds than times you click just like any other semi-auto. Yet it is incorrectly labeled "assault rifle" to try and sway an uninformed populace. That is what amazes me about this entire debate. Obama and the anti-gun crowd can't present actual statistical fact supporting such bans because the statistics show no correlation, no real finding or in some cases (like the 94' ban), find them to be 100% ineffective in every facet.

Instead they NEED to use words like "rapid death, assault rifle, assault weapon" to try and categorize semi-automatic rifles by exploiting aesthetic accessories like pistol grips, muzzle suppressors, barrel shrouds, collapsible stocks etc. None of these things suddenly change the ability of the rifle into a true, fully automatic assault rifle nor allow the user to put out more rounds than a handgun. They can't be honest because there wouldn't be any support for these bans if that were the case. The goal is to scare people into supporting legislation that has been proven to be ineffective to begin the steps to a full-out gun ban years down the line. Their tactics won't change.

I think they underestimated how many Americans were willing to research the issue and inform themselves. That and how close people hold those first 10 natural rights in the constitution and the idea behind 2A which is self-preservation. If it was about stopping gun violence they would ignore rifles all together and go after handguns, but let's face it even most lefties cannot support handgun bans as that is the last bastion of self-defense. Even Piers Morgan says "I am not saying to take away handguns". Yet the numbers say handguns are far more deadly than an AR-15 for many reasons including conceal-ability. The mag ban has no feet because that also has no working basis in reality. It takes a second to reload a mag on any weapon. Not even an inconvenience and banning mags (like they did in NY) assumes a criminal is going to only load the legal 7 bullet max into his illegal 15 round magazine. Yeah, not going to happen. So you're making criminals out of hundreds of thousands of law-abiding citizens and quite literally accomplishing nothing in the way of stopping mass-murder.

Where are the real ideas? Why wasn't Obamas first brilliant idea to offer a tax exception on gun safes for instance? Because this is NOT about stopping any murders. It is a facade with no real, working ideas other than the hidden agenda of progressive gun restrictions against law-abiding citizens of this country.
 
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island1fox

Well-Known Member
I have to give kudos to the NRA. Unlike the GOP they do not fear Obama --they stand by what they believe in and look out for the rights of their members !!
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Gun show next weekend (26,27) in Marlboro, MA at the Best Western Royal Plaza. Think I'll go buy something.
I wonder how crowded it will be AND if they will have anything left.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
New York.

The Nanny State.

You cant have more than 16 ounces of soda in your cup and you cant have more than 7 rounds in your magazine.

It is truly frightening that a government would excercise such control over its subjects in what is supposed to be a free nation.
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Gun show next weekend (26,27) in Marlboro, MA at the Best Western Royal Plaza. Think I'll go buy something.
I wonder how crowded it will be AND if they will have anything left.

Yea, I would get their early and expect to pay some high prices. Looks like your state will be following NY in terms of gun legislation. Goodluck with that fight.

Mass. Gov. Patrick outlines new gun control bill
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Are you so blinded by your hatred that you even get that wrong?
Then his instructions NOT to deport illegals when caught was a lie ???

He has been ignoring laws for awhile now........it's got nothng to do whether I like him or not. He ignores the law and he lies.



You just spout off stuff.....I provide inks to hi saying he won't deport.......

Government will stop deporting some illegal immigrants, allow them to work | CowboyByte

Thwarted by Congress, Obama will stop deporting young illegal immigrants - Los Angeles Times
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Gee, with this new order.....only 10 kids would have been killed......I guess that's an acceptable amount!!


In other words, it won’t do anything to stop another mass killing.
Via NY Post:
New York’s new law limiting the number of bullets in semiautomatic rifle magazines won’t stop determined mass killers, firearms experts said yesterday.

It takes six to eight seconds to fire off a 30-round magazine like that used in the Newtown killings, said Joseph Green, a retired firearms instructor and agent of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

A well-trained shooter would need roughly 13.5 to 22 seconds to fire off the same number of bullets with six magazines of five rounds each, which are legal in New York.

A shooter needs 1.5 seconds to swap out each cartridge, and each five-round cartridge takes one to two seconds to shoot.
Killers facing stressful situations — such as a lot of screaming people — might need a bit more time to swap cartridges, Green said.

But he and other experts say swapping magazines means just a minor delay for determined mass killers.

“It’s not difficult for someone proficient to change magazines. It will take you a few more seconds, nothing longer,” said John Cerar, a retired NYPD deputy inspector and former head of the firearms-training unit.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
New York.

The Nanny State.

You cant have more than 16 ounces of soda in your cup and you cant have more than 7 rounds in your magazine.

It is truly frightening that a government would excercise such control over its subjects in what is supposed to be a free nation.
so move to Mexico.

And yes, I say that "tongue in cheek". But a few weeks ago we had memmbers suggesting I move to Canada, so if you want the wild west, try south of the border.
 
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