guns

[The Other Side]

Not true.

The "nonviolent" tactics espoused by MLK and Ghandi will only work against an oppressor that has at least some sort of moral base and respect...however imperfect or unfairly applied... for the rule of law.

What MLK did was to force the United States federal government to intervene....using the force of law (which ultimately boils down to men with guns)...against racist state and city governments who were denying civil rights to blacks.

Lets use Bull Connor for an example. Why do you think he used fire hoses and dogs against the black protesters instead of opening up on them with live ammunition? It sure as hell wasn't because of his humanity or his respect for the law...it was because he knew that such a choice would result in FBI agents or even National Guard troops (with guns) taking him into custody at gunpoint and prosecuting him for murder. Regardless of how corrupt and biased the state juries might be, he simply could not get away with murdering that many black people on national TV. So he didn't, and instead he used the hoses and the dogs and enough northern whites wound up being appalled at what they saw on TV that Federal government was forced to intervene.

If you took MLK and Ghandi and sent them to Nazi Germany in 1944, do you think their tactics of nonviolence would have worked to save the Jews? No...because the Jews were less than human according to Nazi racial theory and it was considered perfectly acceptable and legal to herd 6 million of them into the gas chambers and murder them. Nonviolence and passive resistance would have served no purpose, and the fact that the Jews were unarmed and helpless only made genocide easier. The only thing that could (and ultimately did) save the Jews was armed resistance and military force.

What happened to the jews in nazi germany had nothing to do with "NAZI THEORY". It had to do with Hitlers comsumption of the christian writings of Martin Luther.

Martin Luther wrote extensively about the extermination of the jews when he created the CHRISTIAN faith system. Martin Luther, the father of the protestant (pronounced PRO TEST TANT) church hated the jews going back to the 1500's for not believing that jesus was the son of christ. He condemned the jews in his writings and Hitler became infatuated with these writings as truth. Hitler was raised a catholic but became a christian as he became older.

Martin Luther excerpts:
http://www.islamdaily.org/en/world-issues/asia-pacific/152.the-jews-and-thier-lies-martin-luther.htm

Nothing could have saved the jews during that period of time.

GUNS would not have saved them. They were a condemned people and the entire populace was against them.

At the time, ALL GERMANS were disarmed by treaty after world war 1 and it wasnt only the JEWS (like some people like to claim) that were disarmed.

The disarming of the german populace started LONG BEFORE Hitler ever took power.

The jews were not saved by the military, but rather, collaterally saved by the destruction of the german military structure. Our country was not brought into the war to save JEWS.

That claim is nonsense.

There were tons of collateral victories after WW2 and none of them were planned or the focus.

Get your facts straight.

TOS.

 

[bbsam]

Bloomberg is no longer mayor, he is just throwing his billions around and, in his own words, trying to buy his way into heaven by changing the world and passing laws to fit his own agenda. And he is absolutely against guns, in his world only the wealthy and politically connected are worthy of armed protection whereas the unwashed masses are not.

They say that the rich go into politics when money no longer satisfies their desire for power. Where do politicians go? Higher office. Bloomberg is no more out of politics than Hillary Clinton. The day Rahm Emmanuel leave the mayors office in Chicago is the day he starts a new campaign whether he announces it or not.

 

[soberups]

Nothing could have saved the jews during that period of time.

GUNS would not have saved them. They were a condemned people and the entire populace was against them.

At the time, ALL GERMANS were disarmed by treaty after world war 1 and it wasnt only the JEWS (like some people like to claim) that were disarmed.

The disarming of the german populace started LONG BEFORE Hitler ever took power.

The Treaty of Versailles which ended WW1 had nothing to do with civilian disarmament, and every thing to do with military disarmament.

It forbade Germany from having U-boats or capital warships, and it limited Germany to an army of 100,000 men with no tanks or heavy artillery.

By 1937, Hitler had abrogated the Treaty and the rearmament of Germany and the construction of U-boats, battleships such as the Graf Spee, and the reformation of the German Luftwaffe was well underway.

Hitler also passed laws that allowed civilian gun ownership for loyal Nazi party and Hitler Youth members, while specifically denying such rights to Jews, Gypsies, and other untermenschen (literally "sub-humans".)

The nations that Germany was initially able to conquer with ease and from where the majority of Jews were subsequently deported (Poland, Russia, Latvia, Ukraine etc.) did not have a tradition of civilian gun ownership, so they could offer no effective guerrilla resistance and the unarmed Jews who lived there were rounded up and slaughtered like cattle.

 

[The Other Side]

The Treaty of Versailles which ended WW1 had nothing to do with civilian disarmament, and every thing to do with military disarmament.

It forbade Germany from having U-boats or capital warships, and it limited Germany to an army of 100,000 men with no tanks or heavy artillery.

By 1937, Hitler had abrogated the Treaty and the rearmament of Germany and the construction of U-boats, battleships such as the Graf Spee, and the reformation of the German Luftwaffe was well underway.

Hitler also passed laws that allowed civilian gun ownership for loyal Nazi party and Hitler Youth members, while specifically denying such rights to Jews, Gypsies, and other untermenschen (literally "sub-humans".)

The nations that Germany was initially able to conquer with ease and from where the majority of Jews were subsequently deported (Poland, Russia, Latvia, Ukraine etc.) did not have a tradition of civilian gun ownership, so they could offer no effective guerrilla resistance and the unarmed Jews who lived there were rounded up and slaughtered like cattle.

Same old lame NRA points on gun control opposition.

Look outside the box, bro.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/01/hitler-stalin-gun-control

TOS.

 

[realbrown1]

Again, they aren't even against others having guns. They have a political constituency that needs to hear it. Just like there are those who rail for impeaching the president. Nothing really comes of either, but folks need to hear it.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, IT'S A DUCK.

 

[728ups]

The Treaty of Versailles which ended WW1 had nothing to do with civilian disarmament, and every thing to do with military disarmament.

It forbade Germany from having U-boats or capital warships, and it limited Germany to an army of 100,000 men with no tanks or heavy artillery.

By 1937, Hitler had abrogated the Treaty and the rearmament of Germany and the construction of U-boats, battleships such as the Graf Spee, and the reformation of the German Luftwaffe was well underway.

Hitler also passed laws that allowed civilian gun ownership for loyal Nazi party and Hitler Youth members, while specifically denying such rights to Jews, Gypsies, and other untermenschen (literally "sub-humans".)

The nations that Germany was initially able to conquer with ease and from where the majority of Jews were subsequently deported (Poland, Russia, Latvia, Ukraine etc.) did not have a tradition of civilian gun ownership, so they could offer no effective guerrilla resistance and the unarmed Jews who lived there were rounded up and slaughtered like cattle.

you are making the same points i made earlier,thanx. Although i do see that you fail to mention that only a very small percentage of the entire population were forbidden guns. The NRA and Right Wingers love to insinuate Hitler disarmed the civilain population when in reality the exact opposite is true

 

[soberups]

you are making the same points i made earlier,thanx. Although i do see that you fail to mention that only a very small percentage of the entire population were forbidden guns. The NRA and Right Wingers love to insinuate Hitler disarmed the civilain population when in reality the exact opposite is true

The "very small percentage" of the population that were forbidden guns (Jews, Gypsies and other untermenschen) also happens to be the same population that the Nazis rounded up and exterminated. Its a lot easier to herd people into concentration camps when you have guns and they don't.

 

[728ups]

The "very small percentage" of the population that were forbidden guns (Jews, Gypsies and other untermenschen) also happens to be the same population that the Nazis rounded up and exterminated. Its a lot easier to herd people into concentration camps when you have guns and they don't.

you still dont get it do you? the Roma (gypsies) weren't part of the German population,not even close. They as well as the vast majority of people exterminated in the gas chambers came from the occupied territories.

 

[728ups]

Excluding a percentage of the population from enjoying the Rights of Gun Ownership is certainly not an invention of the NAzi's, in fact it is practiced now in the USA ,yet I rather doubt it's to make them "Easier to Round Up "

• Persons under indictment for, or convicted of, any crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding on year;
• Fugitives from justice;
• Persons who are unlawful users of, or addicted to, any controlled substance;
• Persons who have been declared by a court as mental defectives or have been committed to a mental institution;
• Illegal aliens, or aliens who were admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
• Persons who have been dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces;
• Persons who have renounced their United States citizenship;
• Persons subject to certain types of restraining orders; and
• Persons who have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

 

[bbsam]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, IT'S A DUCK.

your depth of discourse could drown a tadpole.

 

[realbrown1]

you still dont get it do you? the Roma (gypsies) weren't part of the German population,not even close. They as well as the vast majority of people exterminated in the gas chambers came from the occupied territories.

Who were not allowed to own guns, by the Germans after they took over control of that region.

First, you take away their ability to defend themselves.

Second, you round them up.

Third, you transport them to an extermination factory/camp.

Forth, they no longer exist.

I will never let someone take away my ability to defend myself and my family.

 

[728ups]

Who were not allowed to own guns, by the Germans after they took over control of that region.

First, you take away their ability to defend themselves.

Second, you round them up.

Third, you transport them to an extermination factory/camp.

Forth, they no longer exist.

I will never let someone take away my ability to defend myself and my family.

that is nothing but regurgitated Right Ring Faux News Ronald Regan Loving Rhetoric
at least come up with something original

 

[oldngray]

Not original because he stated historical facts which don't change. Despite revisionist progressives who want to rewrite history.

 

[bbsam]

Not original because he stated historical facts which don't change. Despite revisionist progressives who want to rewrite history.

minor historical facts. The Jews were easy targets not because they were unarmed but because they were universally despised. When Hitler tried to deport the Jews, what happened? When Jews tried to leave voluntarily, what happened? Nobody would take them.

 

[soberups]

Excluding a percentage of the population from enjoying the Rights of Gun Ownership is certainly not an invention of the NAzi's, in fact it is practiced now in the USA ,yet I rather doubt it's to make them "Easier to Round Up "

• Persons under indictment for, or convicted of, any crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding on year;
• Fugitives from justice;
• Persons who are unlawful users of, or addicted to, any controlled substance;
• Persons who have been declared by a court as mental defectives or have been committed to a mental institution;
• Illegal aliens, or aliens who were admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
• Persons who have been dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces;
• Persons who have renounced their United States citizenship;
• Persons subject to certain types of restraining orders; and
• Persons who have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

I don't see "Jews" or "Gypsies" or "homosexuals" on that list, so I'm OK with it. Unlike the Nazis, we here in the USA generally follow due process of law before taking someone's Constitutional rights away from them.

 

[oldngray]

Much of Europe hated Jews (and still do but less openly now) which is why so many came to US.

 

[soberups]

minor historical facts. The Jews were easy targets not because they were unarmed but because they were universally despised. When Hitler tried to deport the Jews, what happened? When Jews tried to leave voluntarily, what happened? Nobody would take them.

Ironically enough, one of the biggest reasons that Hitler was never able to develop an atomic bomb was because most of the pre-eminent nuclear scientists of that era were Jewish and wound up working for us instead. Paybacks are a bitch.

 

[728ups]

Ironically enough, one of the biggest reasons that Hitler was never able to develop an atomic bomb was because most of the pre-eminent nuclear scientists of that era were Jewish and wound up working for us instead. Paybacks are a bitch.

that part,yes you got right

 

[soberups]

minor historical facts. The Jews were easy targets not because they were unarmed but because they were universally despised. When Hitler tried to deport the Jews, what happened? When Jews tried to leave voluntarily, what happened? Nobody would take them.

The fact remains that they were unarmed and had no means of resistance when the Gestapo came to round them up. Passive, non-violent resistance of the type advocated by Ghandi and MLK doesn't work against an oppressor who is perfectly willing to line your people up against a wall and machine-gun you for refusing to obey.

 

[728ups]

minor historical facts. The Jews were easy targets not because they were unarmed but because they were universally despised. When Hitler tried to deport the Jews, what happened? When Jews tried to leave voluntarily, what happened? Nobody would take them.

Excellent point!
The USA turned away the MS St Louis in 1939. This was a German Liner that tried to find homes for over 900 Jewish Refugees and the ship was denied entry into the USA,Canada and Cuba. An emigration law passed in 1924 limited the numbers of refugees allowed from Europe
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005267