guns

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I was ridiculing the fact that a 12 gauge gun that holds 15 shells is being touted as a "home defense" weapon. My dear friend if you unload 15 shots from a 12 gauge in your home you wont HAVE a home afterwards.

I personally have no need for one myself; I think they are overpriced and unnecessary for most home defense situations. But then again, a Corvette that can go 160MPH on a public highway is also overpriced and unnecessary for most transportation situations, a fact which has not stopped them from being sought-after collectors items. People want what they want.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Sorry. I don't find it scary looking.
Fair enough. A lot of people who know little or nothing about guns assume that anything that is black in color or that has cosmetic "tactical" features is an assault weapon that needs to be banned simply because it is scary looking. I am glad you are capable of a more nuanced view.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I find it ludicrous, that anybody would "think" they would have to fire that many rounds in their own homes for any reason.

If anyone finds themselves in an area where they would need that many shots to stop an intrusion or by the sounds of it, an invasion, then simply move.

TOS.
Again, the advantage of this particular gun is not so much its overall capacity as it is the ability to switch between magazines and select ammunition appropriate to the task that poses less of a threat to neighbors or family behind nearby walls.

Your man Joe Biden advocated "firing a couple of rounds off in the air" to scare away intruders. OK, if I am gonna do that then I wan to be shooting birdshot, not buckshot or slugs that are far more lethal and have far greater range. Birdshot is little tiny BB's that are only lethal to humans at room distance or less. Buckshot pellets are the size of small handgun bullets and are lethal well beyond 100 yards. Slugs are big solid chunks of lead that are used to stop grizzly bears in their tracks and are theoretically lethal out to several hundred yards. A responsible gun owner uses the appropriate load for the conditions and task at hand and this new gun gives him the ability to do that better than older designs. Of course...people like you dont care about facts you just look at its appearance and color and the number of shells it holds and want to ban it because it looks scary.
 

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I personally have no need for one myself; I think they are overpriced and unnecessary for most home defense situations. But then again, a Corvette that can go 160MPH on a public highway is also overpriced and unnecessary for most transportation situations, a fact which has not stopped them from being sought-after collectors items. People want what they want.
As always you miss the point.
 

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AOf course...people like you dont care about facts you just look at its appearance and color and the number of shells it holds and want to ban it because it looks scary.
that's quite ironic as you totally miss the FACT that proclaiming a 15 shot 12 gauge shot gun as a 'Home Defense Weapon" is completely absurd.
 

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air enough. A lot of people who know little or nothing about guns assume that anything that is black in color

This is the third time you have posted the color of the weapon being Black,and you seem to go out of your way to point this fact out.Why are you so hung up on the color of the weapon?
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Again, the advantage of this particular gun is not so much its overall capacity as it is the ability to switch between magazines and select ammunition appropriate to the task that poses less of a threat to neighbors or family behind nearby walls.

Your man Joe Biden advocated "firing a couple of rounds off in the air" to scare away intruders. OK, if I am gonna do that then I wan to be shooting birdshot, not buckshot or slugs that are far more lethal and have far greater range. Birdshot is little tiny BB's that are only lethal to humans at room distance or less. Buckshot pellets are the size of small handgun bullets and are lethal well beyond 100 yards. Slugs are big solid chunks of lead that are used to stop grizzly bears in their tracks and are theoretically lethal out to several hundred yards. A responsible gun owner uses the appropriate load for the conditions and task at hand and this new gun gives him the ability to do that better than older designs. Of course...people like you dont care about facts you just look at its appearance and color and the number of shells it holds and want to ban it because it looks scary.


ITs not the guns that scare me, its the NUTS that own them that are the problem.

TOS.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Motorcycles don't scare me, its the NUTS that own them that are the problem.
There is a lot of truth to that as well. Note how nobody is saying to ban them. I have no problem with regulations limiting their production speed to 186 mph. At 145 I tended to lose my nerve.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Again, the advantage of this particular gun is not so much its overall capacity as it is the ability to switch between magazines and select ammunition appropriate to the task that poses less of a threat to neighbors or family behind nearby walls.

Your man Joe Biden advocated "firing a couple of rounds off in the air" to scare away intruders. OK, if I am gonna do that then I wan to be shooting birdshot, not buckshot or slugs that are far more lethal and have far greater range. Birdshot is little tiny BB's that are only lethal to humans at room distance or less. Buckshot pellets are the size of small handgun bullets and are lethal well beyond 100 yards. Slugs are big solid chunks of lead that are used to stop grizzly bears in their tracks and are theoretically lethal out to several hundred yards. A responsible gun owner uses the appropriate load for the conditions and task at hand and this new gun gives him the ability to do that better than older designs. Of course...people like you dont care about facts you just look at its appearance and color and the number of shells it holds and want to ban it because it looks scary.
Did anyone say to ban it or is it your default stance to make that assumption?
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
This is the third time you have posted the color of the weapon being Black,and you seem to go out of your way to point this fact out.Why are you so hung up on the color of the weapon?
Because a lot of people who are ignorant of guns will be ok with a rifle that has a wooden stock and looks "traditional" but if you take the same rifle and drop it into a stock made of black plastic and add a couple of "tactical" cosmetic features to it then it becomes an "assault weapon". It has also become commonplace to refer to all military-styled weapons as "black guns". My Ruger Mini-30 is a perfect example, it is a magazine-fed semi-automatic rifle and in its current configuration (normal wooden stock) it would be legal to own in California as long as it only had a 10 round magazine. The stock is removeable with a couple of bolts and if I dropped it into a black polymer "tactical" stock with a pistol grip....or put a flash suppressor on the end of the barrel...under California law it would automatically go from being legal to being classified as a prohibited "assault weapon" based on cosmetic features alone.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Did anyone say to ban it or is it your default stance to make that assumption?
YOU may not be saying to ban them, but it seems to be the default assumption of the gun-ban crowd that anything that looks "tactical" is one of those evil "assault weapons" that should be banned. Again, I will commend you personally for your ability to take a more nuanced view.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
There is a lot of truth to that as well. Note how nobody is saying to ban them. I have no problem with regulations limiting their production speed to 186 mph. At 145 I tended to lose my nerve.
If we applied the same logic to regulating motorcycles that we do to trying to ban "assault weapons", then any motorcycle with a fairing would be banned for being a "race" bike regardless of engine displacement, top speed, or capabilities of its rider.
 

Rainman

Its all good.
that's quite ironic as you totally miss the FACT that proclaiming a 15 shot 12 gauge shot gun as a 'Home Defense Weapon" is completely absurd.
That depends on how many people are trying to invade your home, how fast they dodge, and how good the aim of the person firing it. On a scary situation like a home invasion, many shots will simply miss their target due to the person firing trying to get off the shot quickly, rather than taking the extra time to be accurate. I don't know how accurate I would be of someone broke I to my house and I was trying to save my family. But I sure as heck would try to do something quickly. Accuracy would be second to that.


Kmart sux. So does Walmart. And Orion.
 

Rainman

Its all good.
I find it ludicrous, that anybody would "think" they would have to fire that many rounds in their own homes for any reason.

If anyone finds themselves in an area where they would need that many shots to stop an intrusion or by the sounds of it, an invasion, then simply move.

TOS.
What if the person was not able to move? You and I are fortunate to have the kind of income and benefits that we have, but a large percentage of the population will never reach the economic success we have achieved.


Kmart sux. So does Walmart. And Orion.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
If we applied the same logic to regulating motorcycles that we do to trying to ban "assault weapons", then any motorcycle with a fairing would be banned for being a "race" bike regardless of engine displacement, top speed, or capabilities of its rider.
With respects to purchasing liability insurance, that is already the case. Many can afford the price of an FZ1 but because the "heart of the beast" is a retuned R1 engine, it is considered a sport bike and insurance rates skyrocket.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
YOU may not be saying to ban them, but it seems to be the default assumption of the gun-ban crowd that anything that looks "tactical" is one of those evil "assault weapons" that should be banned. Again, I will commend you personally for your ability to take a more nuanced view.
sounds like the manufacturers are engaging in cosmetic marketing.
 

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That depends on how many people are trying to invade your home, how fast they dodge, and how good the aim of the person firing it. On a scary situation like a home invasion, many shots will simply miss their target due to the person firing trying to get off the shot quickly, rather than taking the extra time to be accurate. I don't know how accurate I would be of someone broke I to my house and I was trying to save my family. But I sure as heck would try to do something quickly. Accuracy would be second to that.


Kmart sux. So does Walmart. And Orion.
mate you fire 15 shots with a 12 gauge in your home, i'll wager hard earned money you'll either kill or maim your family in the process
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
mate you fire 15 shots with a 12 gauge in your home, i'll wager hard earned money you'll either kill or maim your family in the process
Not if you aim right, but regardless of what you hit you will wind up with ruptured eardrums leaking down the sides of your neck.

Its a cool and interesting looking gun but for the $1200 or more that they are currently going for I will pass. I paid $200 for a used Remington 870 about 20 years ago that keeps my home just as safe, and for an extra $90 I bought a rifled slug barrel so I can deer hunt with it in some of the vineyards on my route.
 
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