Maybe now is the right time to organize

[bacha29]

I think you're confused, boy.

Please don't call me "boy". I'm just like you. A slow thinking white guy. The world's full of them and you're a clear example of it.

 

[bacha29]

Quick answer, no. That said, I don’t believe that insurance coverage should include any and all available procedures. There should be a standard of care available to all at a universal premium . There are extravagantly expensive treatments that would not be included.
This is an oversimplification, but it’s a start.

Exactly. You're going right back to the beginning with denying coverage for pre existing conditions. That's important even for you if you are on Fat Freddy's retiree healthcare plan which he can terminate tomorrow. And if the old rules applied and you sought out a policy on your own and every insurer you contacted denied you coverage because they found something wrong with you well,.....you're SOL.

 

[59 Dano]

The may choose not to fight it it but they are still required to respond to the call and make their best attempt to protect lives and property according to long established fire fighting rules and protocols.

LOL, no.

 

[59 Dano]

Please don't call me "boy". I'm just like you. A slow thinking white guy. The world's full of them and you're a clear example of it.

What does your skin color have to do with it?

 

[bacha29]

LOL, no.

So if your Mom's house caught on fire and you're down there in the basement where you are 97% of the time and they chose not to fight it would you feel bad? Or better yet you're trapped down there and they simply decide to let you figure out for yourself how to get out?

 

[DeliveryException]

I don't believe firefighters can just respond and let a fire burn on a whim. There has to be safety reasons for that outcome. Even then they are still spraying the structure with water they just don't go inside. Unless its a chemical plant or something that is probably going to explode. Or maybe a tire fire, kind of like this thread now.

 

[Fred's Myth]

I don't believe firefighters can just respond and let a fire burn on a whim. There has to be safety reasons for that outcome. Even then they are still spraying the structure with water they just don't go inside. Unless its a chemical plant or something that is probably going to explode. Or maybe a tire fire, kind of like this thread now.

Seen where Volunteer Firefighters have responded to a house fire, only to let it burn to the ground because the owner refused to join their co-op.

 

[Working4the1%]

Quick answer, no. That said, I don’t believe that insurance coverage should include any and all available procedures. There should be a standard of care available to all at a universal premium . There are extravagantly expensive treatments that would not be included.
This is an oversimplification, but it’s a start.

Doctors protest against President Trump during debate in Cleveland

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[bacha29]

Seen where Volunteer Firefighters have responded to a house fire, only to let it burn to the ground because the owner refused to join their co-op.

It all depends on how the laws that governs VFD's are worded. If this was a guy who wanted the same services everyone else was receiving but didn't want to do anything to help support the cost of those services and if services of the co-op were limited to supporting members only and that fact was made clear to him then he should have called someone else.

 

[dmac1]

If the fire dept is tax supported, they can't refuse a call without a good reason.

And there is no good reason, in a country where rednecks claim we are the best, the biggest, the richest over and over while wearing their MGA hats, to deny needed healthcare to everyone, no matter the cost. The only reason we deny care now is due to greed like Dano promotes.

 

[bacha29]

If the fire dept is tax supported, they can't refuse a call without a good reason.

And there is no good reason, in a country where rednecks claim we are the best, the biggest, the richest over and over while wearing their MGA hats, to deny needed healthcare to everyone, no matter the cost. The only reason we deny care now is due to greed like Dano promotes.

It's all relative. Cut funding at the federal level, just pass the revenue shortfall down to the states. States pass it down to the local and so on and so forth. People who get hurt and ill go to the hospital regardless of their ability to pay. The hospital simply adds the uncompensated care to their overall costs and filters it right back through the insurers.

People like Dano, Fred M Tex and others believe that before you do the barnyard thing and crank out a kid you must first prove that you have the means to pop out and support that kid to adulthood. If that were to happen U.S. birth rates would fall into negative territory in a few short years. Same with longevity. You don't know if you're going to live to 69 or 99.

Yes, there is an increasing intolerance for flat out socially irresponsible behavior that's understood but unless you were born into a sheltered and privileged household which Dano as evidenced by his comments obviously was, every other human being is vulnerable to a dramatic and completely unforeseeable turn of events that can spin their lives off into a completely unexpected direction.

 

[Fred's Myth]

If the fire dept is tax supported, they can't refuse a call without a good reason.

And there is no good reason, in a country where rednecks claim we are the best, the biggest, the richest over and over while wearing their MGA hats, to deny needed healthcare to everyone, no matter the cost. The only reason we deny care now is due to greed like Dano promotes.

So, you support an additional TAX on your income, as well as the premiums you must pay, for universal health insurance?

Ok.

 

[dmac1]

So, you support an additional TAX on your income, as well as the premiums you must pay, for universal health insurance?

Ok.

I would support a tax, like was in Obamacare, to support universal health care. If the democrats had simply presented the penalty correctly, with a tax increase on everyone, and a corresponding tax cut for those who had qualifying insurance, no one could have twisted it into a requirement to buy insurance. There never was a requirement that ignorant people still try to claim, just a penalty for not having qualifying insurance. They should have packaged it openly instead of trying to be tricky. Those without insurance are 'takers' the right likes to deride, and should pay a higher tax because they cost the rest of us.

Universal coverage paid for with an income tax on ALL income with private insurers competing with a public medicare-like plan with a sliding scale of copays, deductibles based on income is what is needed. Employers could still pay the 'tax' if they want to provide a benefit to their employees like they do now. The plans must cover all necessary treatments and tests, and out of pocket maximum per year should be ~10% of GROSS income, with ALL income from every source counted. An employer could pay to cover those costs. We could literally cancel all other federal health plans like CHIP, the VA, medicare, and medicaid and save tax payer money by having only one bureaucracy. It would REDUCE the size of government. There is no valid reasonable reason to have more than one agency managing healthcare.

We are paying a ridiculous amount now, and reforming the system would clear up enough so that total costs would remain about the same. I am sure any employer would be glad to pay 20% less to insurers for the same or better coverage for their employees when the 20% off the top that insurers take is eliminated, or at least reduced when they need to compete.

Those on the right oppose common sense because they fear 'socialism' even though public roads, public policing, 'national' defense, the FDA, the USDA, and on and on, including publicly funded FIRE DEPARTMENTS, are already 'socialist.' They never have an answer for why public roads are okay, or the rest, but not publicly funded healthcare. It really comes down to one of two things- stupidity for the average middle class, or greed from the wealthy.

 

[bacha29]

So, you support an additional TAX on your income, as well as the premiums you must pay, for universal insurance?

Ok.

Nothing in life is free. There's over 400 million dollars expended every year on labor and processing costs just to handle insurance claims for the many insurers in the space. A SPS would eliminate that expense. BTW Your state is the state with the highest percentage of it's population uninsured with 19% or 1.6 million . Are you saying that they should be denied care because they have no insurance? And your state is among the leading states that have had hospital closures in recent years. Then again if there's no hospital to go to period what difference does it make whether a person has insurance or not?

 

[dmac1]

So, you support an additional TAX on your income, as well as the premiums you must pay, for universal health insurance?

Ok.

And it doesn't have to be a tax AND a premium, clown. The tax IS the premium. Try to keep up.

 

[Fred's Myth]

And it doesn't have to be a tax AND a premium, clown. The tax IS the premium. Try to keep up.

Where are you willing to stop having the government provide you with services? Should the government oversee and service your grocery shopping? entertainment? utilities? ad infinitum, ad nauseam....

Personal responsibility is what separates Conservatives from Liberals. Teach the skills needed to make proper life choices, not provide and then dictate control over them.

 

[bacha29]

Where are you willing to stop having the government provide you with services? Should the government oversee and service your grocery shopping? entertainment? utilities? ad infinitum, ad nauseam....

Personal responsibility is what separates Conservatives from Liberals. Teach the skills needed to make proper life choices, not provide and then dictate control over them.

The end you speak of will only happen when the demand for government services end . In the meantime, those demands will continue to come from both liberals and conservatives alike. Why both? It's because those services are meant to be a lifeline and in the majority of cases are used in that fashion.
For an example, let's suppose Fat Freddy decides to terminate your retiree health insurance plan which he is perfectly within his right to do and the ACA is overturned and you have to go into the open market and try to buy coverage but are turned down because of preexisting medical conditions. Sounds to be like you would be feces out of luck.

At the same time however given your states rapidly collapsing healthcare system it might not be of much help to you even if you did manage to find a private insurer willing to take you on.

 

[59 Dano]

The only reason we deny care now is due to greed like Dano promotes.

Interesting. How much money can you make from not providing care?

 

[Fred's Myth]

The end you speak of will only happen when the demand for government services end . In the meantime, those demands will continue to come from both liberals and conservatives alike. Why both? It's because those services are meant to be a lifeline and in the majority of cases are used in that fashion.
For an example, let's suppose Fat Freddy decides to terminate your retiree health insurance plan which he is perfectly within his right to do and the ACA is overturned and you have to go into the open market and try to buy coverage but are turned down because of preexisting medical conditions. Sounds to be like you would be feces out of luck.

At the same time however given your states rapidly collapsing healthcare system it might not be of much help to you even if you did manage to find a private insurer willing to take you on.

So, liberals are the 18 year olds that are afraid to go out into the cold dark world and carve their own destiny, preferring the warmth of their parent's basement.

Got it.

 

[59 Dano]

People like Dano, Fred M Tex and others believe that before you do the barnyard thing and crank out a kid you must first prove that you have the means to pop out and support that kid to adulthood.

First I've heard of it.

Yes, there is an increasing intolerance for flat out socially irresponsible behavior that's understood but unless you were born into a sheltered and privileged household which Dano as evidenced by his comments obviously was, every other human being is vulnerable to a dramatic and completely unforeseeable turn of events that can spin their lives off into a completely unexpected direction.

Conceived and raised by two loving heterosexual married factory workers who are still married, neither of whom has assumed a different gender, gotten hooked on booze or drugs, or been to jail. That is not sheltered and privileged, that is known as "normal."