Seniority...... who's got what???

[Coldworld]

So East Coast Navy you don't give a dam about P/Ters because you have no part time years. So you want to not allow them who probably make up about 65% of Local 177. Real Democratic! Your flier says one thing, but if you trying and change the seniority it has to be across the board for all classifications. You are just doing it this way because it helps you jump up over 150 spots so you can do the Premium road Jobs going out West.

Rama are you an off the street hire???

 

[Coldworld]

So East Coast Navy you don't give a dam about P/Ters because you have no part time years. So you want to not allow them who probably make up about 65% of Local 177. Real Democratic! Your flier says one thing, but if you trying and change the seniority it has to be across the board for all classifications. You are just doing it this way because it helps you jump up over 150 spots so you can do the Premium road Jobs going out West.

I thought the premium job was hub shift ....LMAO!!!!

 

[Mugarolla]

Define "regularly"?

Sounds like a National Panel case to me. Interpretation of language. But if a feeder driver has never run bundles in the past 18 months, not even once, you tell me.

How, if the majority of the membership is in favor, do you get out of that endless loop?

UPS and the Teamsters like the term Grandfathered, or Red Circled.

Hell, I don't know. I do not have a dog in the fight. If the Local is entertaining the idea of possibly changing the seniority practice, this is one of the questions that they will have to deal with.

 

[Mugarolla]

Guess it's like part timers who work in the hub for 10 years working two jobs just to watch an off the street hire go right into a driver job after 1 year of seasonal driving....not fair one bit but it happens although not as much as it did a few years ago...

I'm right with you.

I had 2 guys hired off the street in bundles ahead of me while I was PT.

I then had 2 package drivers come into feeders and kick me down 2 spots. It's the seniority system we have, I know how it works, and I live with it.

The PT is my only problem. I agree with Company seniority. I agree with a higher senior package driver deciding to come into feeders late in life and jump ahead of me.

So why doesn't PT years count?

 

[Capone]

I agree I feel a part-timer should be able to transfer and carry their company seniority but they should only get half the credit because they only do half the time. Two part-time years counts as one full-time year.

 

[Mugarolla]

I agree I feel a part-timer should be able to transfer and carry their company seniority but they should only get half the credit because they only do half the time. Two part-time years counts as one full-time year.

I don't necessarily agree on the half time credit.

Someone gets hired PT. They are just waiting for their time to go FT.

UPS needs a package driver. They hire one off the street fulfilling their 6 to 1 ratio. A month later, they need another one. They train you, a PT'er with, say, 10 years seniority.

This means that a new hire has more seniority than a 10 year employee. So for those of you that say seniority should be Company seniority, not classification seniority, then I put it to you that it should be Company seniority, whether PT or FT.

An off the street hire should not have more seniority than a 10 year employee, just because this guy was PT.

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

I don't necessarily agree on the half time credit.

Someone gets hired PT. They are just waiting for their time to go FT.

UPS needs a package driver. They hire one off the street fulfilling their 6 to 1 ratio. A month later, they need another one. They train you, a PT'er with, say, 10 years seniority.

This means that a new hire has more seniority than a 10 year employee. So for those of you that say seniority should be Company seniority, not classification seniority, then I put it to you that it should be Company seniority, whether PT or FT.

An off the street hire should not have more seniority than a 10 year employee, just because this guy was PT.

Wait before they form an opinion on what you just posted they have to see how it affects them.....this way right and wrong doesn't matter.....it's all about how it affects them

 

[rama'nfeeders]

I was part time, I did package, and now in Feeders. I agree with classification seniority especially in Feeders since you have to be trained and than pass the road test to obtain your CDL. I don't care if a guy/gal stays in package like Paulie B. because he wants to obtain the highest level of being a hockey referee. He tells people he passed it up several times and now he wants to change it after all these years and jump ahead of me. No way dude!!!

 

[Mugarolla]

Wait before they form an opinion on what you just posted they have to see how it affects them.....this way right and wrong doesn't matter.....it's all about how it affects them

They are going to have to check the seniority list to see if any PTers have more company seniority than them.

They say it should not be classification seniority, it should be company seniority, oh wait, I mean, ummmm, no, it should be classification seniority separating PT and FT, but company seniority within each classification seniority.

They want their cake and eat it too.

 

[Bubblehead]

They are going to have to check the seniority list to see if any PTers have more company seniority than them.

They say it should not be classification seniority, it should be company seniority, oh wait, I mean, ummmm, no, it should be classification seniority separating PT and FT, but company seniority within each classification seniority.

They want their cake and eat it too.

Part time jobs, by definition, imply that the employee has other interests/options outside the vocation, or are at an entry level.

Full time jobs, by definition, carry with it an entire different level of commitment that clearly makes it a "career".

With these two distinctions in mind, two different seniority lists are justified for part and full time employees by this "classification" only.

Once an employee chooses a "full time career", in my opinion, they should be afforded the right to carry their full time seniority from full time job, to full time job, within the Company.

While I have no immediate intentions of bidding to feeders after 22+ years in packages, I find it remarkable that it can be considered "fair" that those years would mean next to nothing, in many regards, in comparison to a 5 year off street hire?

Increased seniority within the full time classification should always carry with it increased rights and privileges.

Thankfully that's exactly how it works in my Local.

 

[Capone]

I was part time, I did package, and now in Feeders. I agree with classification seniority especially in Feeders since you have to be trained and than pass the road test to obtain your CDL. I don't care if a guy/gal stays in package like Paulie B. because he wants to obtain the highest level of being a hockey referee. He tells people he passed it up several times and now he wants to change it after all these years and jump ahead of me. No way dude!!!

If your friend Paulie decides to transfer just like you did when it was convenient for you and he does the same and he comes to the same Department you are in and he drives the same truck you do when does the same job you do and the only difference between you is that he

 

[Capone]

If your friend Paulie decides to transfer just like you did when it was convenient for you and he does the same and he comes to the same Department you are in and he drives the same truck you do when does the same job you do and the only difference between you is that he

Worked for the company longer than you did ,then he deserves to have more seniority than you ,if you don't believe that's true then you don't believe in seniority.

 

[Mugarolla]

Part time jobs, by definition, imply that the employee has other interests/options outside the vocation, or are at an entry level.

Full time jobs, by definition, carry with it an entire different level of commitment that clearly makes it a "career".

With these two distinctions in mind, two different seniority lists are justified for part and full time employees by this "classification" only.

Once an employee chooses a "full time career", in my opinion, they should be afforded the right to carry their full time seniority from full time job, to full time job, within the Company.

While I have no immediate intentions of bidding to feeders after 22+ years in packages, I find it remarkable that it can be considered "fair" that those years would mean next to nothing, in many regards, in comparison to a 5 year off street hire?

Increased seniority within the full time classification should always carry with it increased rights and privileges.

Thankfully that's exactly how it works in my Local.

I don't agree.

I would bet that over half, probably closer to 3/4 of the PT work force want to make a career out of UPS and make it to full time. They are getting penalized because they were hired PT.

I would agree to your statement that it may be an entry level job, but why should an entry level job have a different seniority classification than another job?

And to your other point, I find it hard to believe that 10+ years at UPS means nothing in seniority compared to an off the street hire, just because the employee is in, what you call, an entry level job.

 

[Mugarolla]

Worked for the company longer than you did ,then he deserves to have more seniority than you ,if you don't believe that's true then you don't believe in seniority.

Exactly. But this should go for PT years also. Company seniority should be your hire date at UPS, plain and simple.

 

[Bubblehead]

I don't agree.

I would bet that over half, probably closer to 3/4 of the PT work force want to make a career out of UPS and make it to full time. They are getting penalized because they were hired PT.

I would agree to your statement that it may be an entry level job, but why should an entry level job have a different seniority classification than another job?

And to your other point, I find it hard to believe that 10+ years at UPS means nothing in seniority compared to an off the street hire, just because the employee is in, what you call, an entry level job.

I'll take that bet and I will raise you.

Not only do half to 3/4 not want the full time opportunity, they don't even stay a year as a part timer.
Turnover is now UPS's biggest problem in regards to part time hiring.
They just can't keep new hires and admit that training them is now a bigger expense than the wages mitigated in higher wages through raises for those who stay.
My building actually has management on staff who's sole duties are in regards to part time retention, the newest initiative being college tuition reimbursement.

Many on this site speak of not being able intent FT driving positions from the part time ranks in their buildings, a notion I most certainly rejected until I saw it for myself in one the buildings in my own Local.
Management claimed they actually lobbied the Labor Department to waive the one year requirement in order to hire PTer's as drivers in this building prior to Peak Season this year in this building.
This was reportedly due to a lack of interest from seniority part time employees.
One of the damnedest thing I've seen in my 30+ years here.

I'm with you in part though, while were tweaking things.
Instead of combining the part time and full time lists, let's just get rid of the 6-1 FT hiring ratio and offer all jobs intented through the part time ranks, before ever hiring a single person from off the street?

Then would it be fair, at least going forward?

 

[Mugarolla]

I'll take that bet and I will raise you.

Not only do half to 3/4 not want the full time opportunity, they don't even stay a year as a part timer.
Turnover is now UPS's biggest problem in regards to part time hiring.
They just can't keep new hires and admit that training them is now a bigger expense than the wages mitigated in higher wages through raises for those who stay.
My building actually has management on staff who's sole duties are in regards to part time retention, the newest initiative being college tuition reimbursement.

Many on this site speak of not being able intent FT driving positions from the part time ranks in their buildings, a notion I most certainly rejected until I saw it for myself in one the buildings in my own Local.
Management claimed they actually lobbied the Labor Department to waive the one year requirement in order to hire PTer's as drivers in this building prior to Peak Season this year in this building.
This was reportedly due to a lack of interest from seniority part time employees.
One of the damnedest thing I've seen in my 30+ years here.

I'm with you in part though, while were tweaking things.
Instead of combining the part time and full time lists, let's just get rid of the 6-1 FT hiring ratio and offer all jobs intented through the part time ranks, before ever hiring a single person from off the street?

Then would it be fair, at least going forward?

I haven't seen it, unlike you, so I reject it.

That is a good idea about taking all FT from the PT ranks. Unless nobody wants to go, in that case, the company seniority issue would be a non-issue.

 

[East coast navy]

I don't necessarily agree on the half time credit.

Someone gets hired PT. They are just waiting for their time to go FT.

UPS needs a package driver. They hire one off the street fulfilling their 6 to 1 ratio. A month later, they need another one. They train you, a PT'er with, say, 10 years seniority.

This means that a new hire has more seniority than a 10 year employee. So for those of you that say seniority should be Company seniority, not classification seniority, then I put it to you that it should be Company seniority, whether PT or FT.

An off the street hire should not have more seniority than a 10 year employee, just because this guy was PT.

I have to agree with Capone on this one... If you we're to take a test school and only do have of it. Do you get full credit? No... So why should you get full credit that some one put more time in and off the clock? It should go by how many hours you work in Pt... Your over time should count in Pt as well.

 

[East coast navy]

I was part time, I did package, and now in Feeders. I agree with classification seniority especially in Feeders since you have to be trained and than pass the road test to obtain your CDL. I don't care if a guy/gal stays in package like Paulie B. because he wants to obtain the highest level of being a hockey referee. He tells people he passed it up several times and now he wants to change it after all these years and jump ahead of me. No way dude!!!

Well if you you want Pt seniority to become company, then come help us and in the fight to gain and retain our seniority...

Come help us brother...

 

[East coast navy]

Wait before they form an opinion on what you just posted they have to see how it affects them.....this way right and wrong doesn't matter.....it's all about how it affects them

IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

 

[Mugarolla]

I have to agree with Capone on this one... If you we're to take a test school and only do have of it. Do you get full credit? No... So why should you get full credit that some one put more time in and off the clock? It should go by how many hours you work in Pt... Your over time should count in Pt as well.

I sort of see your point.

Although, is it not Company seniority? How long you have been with the Company.

Just because you may have only worked 4 or 5 hours a day, you have been with the Company for 10 years. You should have 10 years Company seniority.