Union is done

[Nimnim]

How much longer would have you liked to have seen this go? Would you have been prepared to put your life and livelihood on hold to support your "brothers"?

The harsh reality is that the vast majority of Teamsters approved the master and their supplement and the IBT had the wisdom to see that the minority of Local 89 members who even bothered to vote were never going to be satisfied no matter what the company agreed to. The company no longer wanted to be in the healthcare field and the union saw the money-making potential of taking over the healthcare.

The IBT made the right move.

I understand the sentiment, but less than 40% of members voted, I wouldn't call that the vast majority. Personally I can go months without worrying, but I understand those in the PT workforce that can't. We weren't even close to striking, but 3 locals had issues that didn't have to do with healthcare, though they may have had issues with it as well, that were denied the due process of negation now.

I just don't see why the IBT couldn't have said we're going to institute the NMA since it was agreed upon, put forth the healthcare and other changes in the NMA and let the remaining locals negotiate longer.

 

[Anonymous 11]

I understand the sentiment, but less than 40% of members voted, I wouldn't call that the vast majority. Personally I can go months without worrying, but I understand those in the PT workforce that can't. We weren't even close to striking, but 3 locals had issues that didn't have to do with healthcare, though they may have had issues with it as well, that were denied the due process of negation now.

I just don't see why the IBT couldn't have said we're going to institute the NMA since it was agreed upon, put forth the healthcare and other changes in the NMA and let the remaining locals negotiate longer.

Maybe the members will actuay vote next time but as contentious as it was in local 89 3000 OT of 9000 actually voted. So I'll believe it when it happens.

 

[Jim Rockford]

This notion of "never being satisfied" is all smoke and mirrors.Truth is ..the company never bargained the local in good faith. Weird thing is that when the first local was put up for a vote..the company was freaking out..passing out flyer after flyer..telling us how great it was in every pcm..then after that was voted down...silence. Didnt make sense at the time..but now it makes perfect sense.Know how many timed ive heard insurance brought up as the reason for voting mo here at worldport?...Z-E-R-O.

 

[Bubblehead]

Maybe the members will actuay vote next time but as contentious as it was in local 89 3000 OT of 9000 actually voted. So I'll believe it when it happens.

It was only 3000 out of a little over 8000, but that's not the point.
Why would anybody who didn't vote this time feel compelled to vote next time, when the ones who did had there votes rendered irrelevant?
Spin it backwards or forwards, in the end it's just lipstick on a pig.

 

[Anonymous 11]

It was only 3000 out of a little over 8000, but that's not the point.
Why would anybody who didn't vote this time feel compelled to vote next time, when the ones who did had there votes rendered irrelevant?
Spin it backwards or forwards, in the end it's just lipstick on a pig.

Here is the point. If people bothered to vote in the first ace this never would have happened. That's the lip stick on your pig.

 

[Bubblehead]

How much longer would have you liked to have seen this go? Would you have been prepared to put your life and livelihood on hold to support your "brothers"?

The harsh reality is that the vast majority of Teamsters approved the master and their supplement and the IBT had the wisdom to see that the minority of Local 89 members who even bothered to vote were never going to be satisfied no matter what the company agreed to. The company no longer wanted to be in the healthcare field and the union saw the money-making potential of taking over the healthcare.

The IBT made the right move.

Again, there was no "vast majority".
The National Master and all Supplements that passed, did so by a slight margin, some after two or three attempts at an enormous cost to the membership.
Make no mistake, this debacle has left us a union divided and force feeding the remaining supplements to those opposed, only served to deepen that rift.
2016 should be an interesting year.

 

[Nimnim]

Here is the point. If people bothered to vote in the first ace this never would have happened. That's the lip stick on your pig.

I wouldn't be so sure. Really what's the difference of 3/8ths voting and it getting voted down vs say 7/8th voting and it getting voted down? Nothing since it was voted down. Why would more people be inclined to vote now since we have a nasty precedent that says the IBT can just force the last offer without another vote?

Edit: Get changed to it, bad typing.

 

[Bubblehead]

Here is the point. If people bothered to vote in the first ace this never would have happened. That's the lip stick on your pig.

So are you saying that if all 8000 in Local 89 would have voted and the margins were still 96% no, this contract would not have been imposed on the membership?
That is surely lipstick on a pig.

 

[Anonymous 11]

So are you saying that if all 8000 in Local 89 would have voted and the margins were still 96% no, this contract would not have been imposed on the membership?
That is surely lipstick on a pig.

What if all voted on the master the first time around? Problem solved on the first vote. No master passing. Right?

 

[Bubblehead]

I wouldn't be so sure. Really what's the difference of 3/8ths voting and it getting voted down vs say 7/8th voting and it getting voted down? Nothing since it was voted down. Why would more people be inclined to vote now since we have a nasty precedent that says the IBT can just force the last offer without another vote?

Edit: Get changed to it, bad typing.

It make it look like the whole process is just a....what's the word I'm looking for???...oh yea, a FACADE.

 

[Bubblehead]

What if all voted on the master the first time around? Problem solved on the first vote. No master passing. Right?

So you know how they would have voted?

 

[Ron Carey lives on]

I had to explain to some new drivers that their 9.5 rights are gone for 4 years, under new language in article 37. Our dispatchers are laughing at the new language. Of course the company can afford to pay triple time to the few. When so many are not eligible now. You can tell a corporate lawyer negotiated this contract. Zuckerman/Pope 2016

Sent using BrownCafe App

 

[Nimnim]

What if all voted on the master the first time around? Problem solved on the first vote. No master passing. Right?

If 100% of the people eligible voted that'd be one for the record books. Assume that even 90% voted, if it was yes there'd be some complaints but it'd go through. If it was no there'd be some complaints, but we can no longer be sure the process would be respected and another vote would happen and the IBT wouldn't just force it upon us all.

Of course it sounds absurd that is a truly vast majority of members voted and it got voted down we'd end up denied our votes and just have a few decide to push it through, but we have a precedent on a smaller scale now that could be applied.

 

[realbrown1]

This notion of "never being satisfied" is all smoke and mirrors.Truth is ..the company never bargained the local in good faith. Weird thing is that when the first local was put up for a vote..the company was freaking out..passing out flyer after flyer..telling us how great it was in every pcm..then after that was voted down...silence. Didnt make sense at the time..but now it makes perfect sense.Know how many timed ive heard insurance brought up as the reason for voting mo here at worldport?...Z-E-R-O.

Do you think the UPS silence was because the they knew (were promised by Hoffa/Hall) that the contract would be imposed by the union after the next vote?

If so, isn't that grounds for removal from office? A betrayal of trust?

 

[realbrown1]

Here is the point. If people bothered to vote in the first ace this never would have happened. That's the lip stick on your pig.

Are you blaming teamsters? For not voting? It's their fault?

How many knew that Hoffa and the General Board could impose this contract? Most teamsters probably didn't even know that was possible.

The blame lies squarely on Hoffa and Hall and the General Board of Old Guard thugs on this one.

 

[realbrown1]

How much longer would have you liked to have seen this go?

As long as local 89 and the others holdouts wanted to take it.

Face it, UPS never had to negotiate with these locals after the 1st vote. Hoffa and Hall promised them that.

 

[Jim Rockford]

Do you think the UPS silence was because the they knew (were promised by Hoffa/Hall) that the contract would be imposed by the union after the next vote?

It certainly was a deafening hush...the time that the second rider was to be voted on, not a peep from the company. On the first one...the company was over the top...even going so far as to send the PARENTS of the metro college kids the benefits of the local rider...and...were saying that a vote NO would eliminate the program. Remember thinking that after a second vote no that the company would step up discipline and do the proverbial breathing down the neck...nope..nada...zilch. Odd...isnt it?

 

[rod]

I don't know enough about your new contact to say if it is good or bad but I still can't understand why everyone voted yes on UPS's first offer. Never vote yes the first time. That's like taking a car salesmans word that his first offer is the best he can do.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Do you think the UPS silence was because the they knew (were promised by Hoffa/Hall) that the contract would be imposed by the union after the next vote?

If so, isn't that grounds for removal from office? A betrayal of trust?

-Bug-

 

[Xexys]

Do you think the UPS silence was because the they knew (were promised by Hoffa/Hall) that the contract would be imposed by the union after the next vote?

Herein lies your answer.

Most of us figured the three holdouts were actually trying to bargain on other language besides healthcare to which I believed. What happened to those articles? IBT just simply imposes their rule over the blanket of HC when in fact the locals had other articles that they had problems with in negotiations? The new Teamsters is unruly and frankly not standing up for the dues payers. Glad I'm out of this company, all I hear from my old co-workers is disdain.