Gun control advocates in Ferguson MO

[wkmac]

Funny how a character in a Fawkesian mask does that.

BTW bbsam: I think you might appreciate this piece by legal analyst and former US prosecuting attorney Jeffrey Toobin. As I read the transcript of Officer Wilson's testimony, I was struck more than anything by the lack of adversarial stance on the part of the 2 prosecutors. I came to the conclusion that the point of the Grand Jury was never to indict Wilson, regardless of what the evidence said but rather the point was to use the Grand Jury as cover for their (political leaders) lack of courage to stand up and just say there was nothing in the evidence to support and indictment in the first place. The Grand Jury was not a judicial move but rather a political one of pure theater.

 

[oldngray]

The case only went to a grand jury because of political pressure. The evidence did not support any charges but there would have been riots if the prosecutor had dismissed the case on his own (as compared to the riots that occurred anyway). The prosecutor did pretty much punt things by putting all evidence whether good or bad in front of the grand jury and letting them decide instead of slanting the case in favor of prosecution. Slanting the evidence is ethically wrong but still commonly occurs of course. If the prosecutor had tried to twist the facts to win a prosecution that would be violating Wilson's rights. Some in media (supposed legal experts) were critical of how he questioned the witnesses and how he didn't cross examine Wilson, but there is no cross examination since they are all his witnesses.

 

[bbsam]

The case only went to a grand jury because of political pressure. The evidence did not support any charges but there would have been riots if the prosecutor had dismissed the case on his own (as compared to the riots that occurred anyway). The prosecutor did pretty much punt things by putting all evidence whether good or bad in front of the grand jury and letting them decide instead of slanting the case in favor of prosecution. Slanting the evidence is ethically wrong but still commonly occurs of course. If the prosecutor had tried to twist the facts to win a prosecution that would be violating Wilson's rights. Some in media (supposed legal experts) were critical of how he questioned the witnesses and how he didn't cross examine Wilson, but there is no cross examination since they are all his witnesses.

I think you are wrong about that. The prosecutor is supposed to put his own best case forward. The defense gets to refute the evidence if and when charges are brought. Now if the prosecutor really doesn't want to try the case....

 

[oldngray]

I think you are wrong about that. The prosecutor is supposed to put his own best case forward. The defense gets to refute the evidence if and when charges are brought. Now if the prosecutor really doesn't want to try the case....

The defense gets no say in a grand jury. All prosecution. And the prosecutor is not supposed to use tactics to get a case that can't be won to go to trial. I agree the prosecutor did not want to try the case because so much evidence supported Wilson's story but politics forced him to make an attempt anyway.

 

[superballs63]

The prosecutor sent it to the grand jury, because if he had just declined to indict Wilson, the idiots in Ferguson would have rioted and McCullough would have been labeled a racist.

Oh, so absolutely nothing would have changed?

 

[bbsam]

The prosecutor sent it to the grand jury, because if he had just declined to indict Wilson, the idiots in Ferguson would have rioted and McCullough would have been labeled a racist.

Oh, so absolutely nothing would have changed?

No need to call McCollough a racist. Could just say he's to "buddy buddy" with the local law enforcement to be an effective prosecutor.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

"Our only goal was that our investigation would be thorough and complete, to give the grand jury, the Department of Justice and ultimately the public all available evidence," McCulloch said in announcing that the jury had found no probable cause to bring Wilson to trial on criminal charges.

The tactic was a shrewd maneuver, legal experts say, in which McCulloch both deflected responsibility for his own failure to charge Wilson and — deliberately or not — created conditions in which the grand jury would not be likely to charge him either.

"This was a strategic and problematic use of a grand jury to get the result he wanted," said Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., director of the Harvard Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard University. "As a strategic move, it was smart; he got what he wanted without being seen as directly responsible for the result."

Most tellingly, legal experts said, McCulloch did not challenge Wilson's detailed account of his encounter with Brown. That, they said, prompted jurors to accept at face value Wilson's testimony that he feared for his life as Brown allegedly charged at him after he punched the officer and tried to grab his gun.

"A first-year law student would have done a better job of cross-examining Wilson", said Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Brown's family. "When was his credibility ever challenged?"
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-da-analysis-20141126-story.html

 

[oldngray]

"Our only goal was that our investigation would be thorough and complete, to give the grand jury, the Department of Justice and ultimately the public all available evidence," McCulloch said in announcing that the jury had found no probable cause to bring Wilson to trial on criminal charges.

The tactic was a shrewd maneuver, legal experts say, in which McCulloch both deflected responsibility for his own failure to charge Wilson and — deliberately or not — created conditions in which the grand jury would not be likely to charge him either.

"This was a strategic and problematic use of a grand jury to get the result he wanted," said Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., director of the Harvard Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard University. "As a strategic move, it was smart; he got what he wanted without being seen as directly responsible for the result."

Most tellingly, legal experts said, McCulloch did not challenge Wilson's detailed account of his encounter with Brown. That, they said, prompted jurors to accept at face value Wilson's testimony that he feared for his life as Brown allegedly charged at him after he punched the officer and tried to grab his gun.

"A first-year law student would have done a better job of cross-examining Wilson", said Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Brown's family. "When was his credibility ever challenged?"
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-da-analysis-20141126-story.html

Ben Crump was unhappy at the outcome? What a surprise!

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Ben Crump was unhappy at the outcome? What a surprise!

What's interesting isn't the outcome, which was to be expected. What's interesting is the means this prosecutor used to get the decision he wanted.

 

[bbsam]

Maybe in hindsight the prosecutor realizes it would have been cheaper to do his job, get an indictment and let a jury work it's course.

 

[bbsam]

bbsam,

I only ask that the Liberals and People like Sharpton make up their minds --one way or the other.

First they say --as you claim--the police are fueling the fires and using excessive force.

THEN --When the Business's are looted and Burned to the ground --not by the force or the fuel of the Police --but by thugs ---Sharpton is out there claiming --the Democrat Governor and the Police let the town burn !!!

What say you ?

I can already see it --stop the violence with Tolerance ,peace, flowers and agreeing to rules of engagement.

If you were one of those poor cops --being spit at, cursed at, rocks being thrown, Molotov cocktails being thrown as well as being shot at --I am sure you would stand there and risk your life and do NOTHING !!

You know what Island? The state (federal, state, and local) has put itself in a very tight box here. It's been simmering for years, blowing occasionally and until they get serious about addressing race comprehensively it will continue to erupt, every time more violently than the time before. This isn't about one kid shot by a cop. It's far bigger.

So no. I feel nothing for the state in this case.

 

[oldngray]

Maybe in hindsight the prosecutor realizes it would have been cheaper to do his job, get an indictment and let a jury work it's course.

What if doing his job was not getting an indictment if the evidence indicates that should be the correct result? If no indictment should be made then sending it to a trial would be wrong (and more expensive).

 

[wayfair]

What's interesting isn't the outcome, which was to be expected. What's interesting is the means this prosecutor used to get the decision he wanted.

so you're saying, he wanted MB dead too

 

[bbsam]

What if doing his job was not getting an indictment if the evidence indicates that should be the correct result? If no indictment should be made then sending it to a trial would be wrong (and more expensive).

Considering the chaos, destruction and increasedan security cost, I think a trial would have been far cheaper

 

[superballs63]

Considering the chaos, destruction and increasedan security cost, I think a trial would have been far cheaper

A trial would have been un- warranted. People go to trial when evidence proves that a crime was commited, there was no evidence that Wilson committed ANY crime. The same cannot be said about Brown, however.

 

[oldngray]

Considering the chaos, destruction and increasedan security cost, I think a trial would have been far cheaper

Are you claiming there would have been less chaos and destruction and security costs with a long trial followed by an acquittal ?

 

[bbsam]

Are you claiming there would have been less chaos and destruction and security costs with a long trial followed by an acquittal ?

Far less. But I'm glad it went this way.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Ferguson needs more of this...

And less of this...

* Warning for Language *

 

[wkmac]

I think the root problem is the proliferation of bananas in society.

We just need more Banana Control!

 

[wkmac]

So no. I feel nothing for the state in this case.

You my friend are starting to show signs of anarchism.
All joking aside, I do understand what you are saying and feeling.

This isn't about one kid shot by a cop. It's far bigger.

You are correct.