bigcomputergeek
Member
Would anyone happen to know what a full-time TSG sup makes or a TSG manager or a Specialist?
TSG_Lets_Unionize
Gold Member
A specialist is a 7% raise above where you were as a senior tech, but based on 45hrs per week. So if your a senior tech making $25/hr, if promoted to specialist you should then be making aprox. $5500/mo.
At least that is how it works in our district. Your mileage may very.
As far as sups on up go, there are far too many variables to make any blanket statements about salary. But keep in mind they make significantly more than we do, no matter how hard they may try to convince you they don't. Plus they have lots of perks and extra comps outside of higher salary such as MIP, half month bonus, and not being tied to a time clock.
Then there is the job security. A sup will never be "laid off". They will always put them in a differant position.
At least that is how it works in our district. Your mileage may very.
As far as sups on up go, there are far too many variables to make any blanket statements about salary. But keep in mind they make significantly more than we do, no matter how hard they may try to convince you they don't. Plus they have lots of perks and extra comps outside of higher salary such as MIP, half month bonus, and not being tied to a time clock.
Then there is the job security. A sup will never be "laid off". They will always put them in a differant position.
TSG_Lackie
Member
bdva50 said:
I agree, read this crap.
1 Record earnings for 2005 with strong cash flow give company a strong quarter.
UPS Press Release
Led by a strong 21.5 percent gain in worldwide revenue, UPS reported net income of $1.05 billion and a 25 percent increase in diluted earnings per share for the fourth quarter.
For the full year, adjusted earnings per share climbed 19.7 percent and the company generated $3.5 billion in free cash flow. The 12-month period also produced record volume with UPS delivering 3.75 billion packages in 2005, or an average of 14.8 million per day.
UPSs performance in 2005 was exceptional, including a well-executed peak season, said Mike Eskew, UPS chairman and CEO. All of our people pulled together to achieve the growth and financial goals we set for ourselves. Our momentum accelerated during each quarter of 2005 and we look forward to more progress in 2006.
For the quarter ended Dec. 31, 2005, global volume increased 7.9 percent to a record 16.8 million packages per day. That equates to an additional 1.2 million packages delivered per day. U.S. volume grew 6.2 percent in total, paced by an 8.5 percent increase in deferred air volume coupled with a 6.3 percent increase in Next Day Air packages. Average daily ground volume in the U.S. rose 5.9 percent. U.S. volume gains in the fourth quarter were the highest experienced by the company in several years.
Internationally, average daily package volume rose 25.1% to 1.8 million a day. Export volume was again strong with a 15.4 percent increase reflecting significant gains across all regions of the world.
Revenue for the fourth quarter climbed 21.5 percent to $11.95 billion, including the impact of acquisitions. Consolidated operating profit increased 42.1 percent to $1.71 billion. Adjusting fourth quarter 2004 results for an aircraft impairment charge and a charge to pension expense, operating profit jumped 24.3 percent.
Earnings per diluted share were $0.95 for the quarter compared to $0.76 reported in the prior year. Adjusting for the after-tax effects of the items mentioned above and credits to income tax expense recognized in 2004, diluted earnings per share rose 15.9 percent from $0.82 a year ago. The company increased its effective tax rate in the fourth quarter of 2005, which reduced earnings per diluted share by $0.02.
Highlights by segment for the fourth quarter included:
- U.S. domestic package revenue grew 8.9 percent during the period to $7.82 billion. Boosted by a strong holiday season, all products experienced strong volume growth. Excluding the impact of the 2004 aircraft impairment and pension charges, operating profit rose 21.9 percent to $1.24 billion. Pricing remained firm. The U.S. segments operating margin increased to 15.8 percent.
- International package revenue increased 18.3 percent to $2.22 billion. Excluding the impact of the 2004 aircraft impairment charge, operating profit climbed 25.3 percent to $431 million. Export volume grew 15.4 percent with double-digit growth across Asia, Europe and the U.S. International domestic volume climbed 31.7 percent aided by acquisitions in Europe during the year. The international operating margin increased to 19.4 percent.
- Revenue for the supply chain and freight segment jumped 146 percent to $1.91 billion, reflecting the positive impacts of both the Menlo Worldwide Forwarding and Overnite acquisitions. Operating profit climbed 139 percent to $43 million. Revenue at Overnite for its first full quarter as part of UPS totaled $483 million.
The year was one of significant growth, margin expansion and excellent cash flow, said Chief Financial Officer Scott Davis. Were optimistic about 2006 and confident in our ability to continue producing the type of consistent earnings growth for which were known. We will continue to invest in all three of our businesses and execute strategies in each segment that will enable us to capitalize on the growth in global commerce.
For the first quarter of 2006, UPS is projecting diluted earnings per share in a range of $0.85 to $0.89 compared to the $0.78 reported during the prior-year period. For the full year of 2006, Davis reiterated UPSs expectation of an increase in diluted earnings per share of 11-to-16 percent, consistent with the companys historical compound annual growth rate.
But yet they decide to lay us off!! What a crock of ****.
ncrtscisme
Well-Known Member
yeah, 3.87 billion dollars in PROFIT, up from 3.3...but still not enough, right? Of course they had to shell out quite a bit for those lucrative bonuses.
So, I'm curious to know what other TSCs have been told so far...we at 02 are supposed to get the list of open jobs next friday (feb 3) and the job picking starts on the 6th.
So, I'm curious to know what other TSCs have been told so far...we at 02 are supposed to get the list of open jobs next friday (feb 3) and the job picking starts on the 6th.
Sideline Sam
New Member
Ive been reading along with many other silent, but interested, UPSers for the last week. I have finally decided to join this discussion. I dont plan on making too many friends, but I promise you I will tell the truth.
<O
></O>
></O>
I have been a technician at UPS for over 10 years. I worked for UPS in other functions before entering TSG. I havent been happy with my job in many years. I have no sense of fulfillment. I have no sense of challenge. TSG is simply a job it could be picking up trash in the hub, or washing trucks in a center. I wish I could get excited about it, but I dont. And while I get no love at work, I am smitten with technology in general.
<O></O>
Would I like to trade my TSG job for those above definitely not. TSG is easy work. Ive never had a job in my life where I am paid as much to do as little. Dont get me wrong. I have stressful days when everything breaks and the CTSG page has a dead link for every topic I desperately need to view. Ive had HFCS down with division and hub managers breathing down my neck. I know those days. I also know the truth is that in my district the technicians dont have enough work to honestly make their PMT commitments. I dont know how they do, and I dont want to know. I just know it all works out weekly and monthly.
<O></O>
Not having enough work is not the technicians fault. I dont even know if I would put the responsibility on the supervision. Who says that technicians have to be active every second of the day well, apparently UPS is saying so, now. For over a decade TSG was understood to be the reactionary force that we are.
<O></O>
Wonder if we applied the same hustle-and-production mentality to firemen, paramedics, and police officers. Would we have them, on lean days, creating fires, bandaging up healthy people, and handcuffing the innocent simply to justify their existence -- of course not. We want them to put out fires, inflate our sagging lungs, and stop our attackers when a real problem exists. Otherwise, we want them safely away and out of sight. We respect them because they provide the expertise to address the trauma in our lives. We make fun, but we accept that cops eat donuts waiting on the next call. The paramedics stock white sheets and saline drip, and the firemen pet spotted white dogs while polishing red trucks.
<O></O>
Just because they dont hustle every hour of their day, we dont discount their worth. Unfortunately, this sensibility does not exist at UPS. I understand that we might truly be overmanned. In fact, I believe this is true in my district. However, the percent to which this is true is not something I can estimate with any certainty. If they take a little here and a bit there, I can live with it.
<O></O>
Of course, I am probably not one of the technicians affected. So I can speak freely without the gut-wrenching feeling of not knowing if I can be saved. I felt numb for a few days after the announcement. And, as I say, I am probably not going anywhere. I feel for those who have to leave. I really do. These guys are my friends. Sadly, some of them have better skills than those who will stay behind.
<O></O>
What bothers me most about the prospect of losing our jobs is that many UPS technicians have little regard for just how poor our skills-sets have been developed. Almost every technician in my district has the A+. Few have anything more. Few have any real concept of network hardware, server administration, security management, web development, hardware bench support I could go on, and on. It is my belief that most technicians at UPS would likely have to settle for about two-thirds their current salary outside of UPS. I may be wrong; it is just my opinion.
<O></O>
For those technicians that will have to leave UPS, I wish them well. I hope they kept their skills honed by outside education and side-work. If they didnt, I feel for them. If there is one thing that we can really agree on is that UPS has had very little interest in a highly skilled technician workforce. I like that they paid for the A+ (time, travel, and testing). This was great. However, it is the only great thing I can remember concerning training and development. The horrible district training teams and SMS are so ridiculous that it is not productive to even discuss further.
<O></O>
If you like technology and feel threatened by this round of layoffs, please make a conscious decision to take your future into your own hands. You are going to have to keep your skills sharp. While this might be the first TSG layoff, it doesnt have to mean that it will be the end. Not sure, see the Center of Future (COF).
<O></O>
If you have a passion for technology, and dont work in North Jersey, you cannot expect but so much at UPS. Centralized administration, consolidated Helpdesks, and proprietary hardware and software dont lend to district technician excitement and fulfillment. If you really want technology, I just dont think UPS is the place for it.
<O></O>
I traded fulfillment and challenge for an easy job, great benefits, decent pay, and, mostly, for the security that UPS has afforded hundreds of thousands of employees for nearly 100 years. Now that the security is gone, those other things have lost a lot of their luster.
<O></O>
I know a lot of you will read this message and find fault with one or more things Ive said. I promised to be honest, and I think I have. Hell, if TIEGUY can spew forth, why cant I.
<O></O>
Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of my TSG life. My palm has lines that run long. Perhaps to some it is an omen of a long life. I hope so. For others, their palms are sweaty and their lines short. Perhaps to some it is an omen of a perilous life. To those, may your unemployment lines be short. May your unemployment time be shorter.
<O></O>
To those who always call the Helpdesk, long life. To those who make the effort for the most part, a good life. And to those who knock upon my door, much strife. For you have taken my brothers UPS life.
<O
></O>First, TIEGUY, you have been very calm and made many good points. Often, your efforts have left very little room for argument. However, I dont like your passive-aggressive style. It has become tiresome. You are calm, but aim to jab smartly, often with condescension. Dont forget that many technicians have education levels that exceed that of the division staff in districts.
<O></O>I have been a technician at UPS for over 10 years. I worked for UPS in other functions before entering TSG. I havent been happy with my job in many years. I have no sense of fulfillment. I have no sense of challenge. TSG is simply a job it could be picking up trash in the hub, or washing trucks in a center. I wish I could get excited about it, but I dont. And while I get no love at work, I am smitten with technology in general.
<O
></O>Would I like to trade my TSG job for those above definitely not. TSG is easy work. Ive never had a job in my life where I am paid as much to do as little. Dont get me wrong. I have stressful days when everything breaks and the CTSG page has a dead link for every topic I desperately need to view. Ive had HFCS down with division and hub managers breathing down my neck. I know those days. I also know the truth is that in my district the technicians dont have enough work to honestly make their PMT commitments. I dont know how they do, and I dont want to know. I just know it all works out weekly and monthly.
<O
></O>Not having enough work is not the technicians fault. I dont even know if I would put the responsibility on the supervision. Who says that technicians have to be active every second of the day well, apparently UPS is saying so, now. For over a decade TSG was understood to be the reactionary force that we are.
<O
></O>Wonder if we applied the same hustle-and-production mentality to firemen, paramedics, and police officers. Would we have them, on lean days, creating fires, bandaging up healthy people, and handcuffing the innocent simply to justify their existence -- of course not. We want them to put out fires, inflate our sagging lungs, and stop our attackers when a real problem exists. Otherwise, we want them safely away and out of sight. We respect them because they provide the expertise to address the trauma in our lives. We make fun, but we accept that cops eat donuts waiting on the next call. The paramedics stock white sheets and saline drip, and the firemen pet spotted white dogs while polishing red trucks.
<O
></O>Just because they dont hustle every hour of their day, we dont discount their worth. Unfortunately, this sensibility does not exist at UPS. I understand that we might truly be overmanned. In fact, I believe this is true in my district. However, the percent to which this is true is not something I can estimate with any certainty. If they take a little here and a bit there, I can live with it.
<O
></O>Of course, I am probably not one of the technicians affected. So I can speak freely without the gut-wrenching feeling of not knowing if I can be saved. I felt numb for a few days after the announcement. And, as I say, I am probably not going anywhere. I feel for those who have to leave. I really do. These guys are my friends. Sadly, some of them have better skills than those who will stay behind.
<O
></O>What bothers me most about the prospect of losing our jobs is that many UPS technicians have little regard for just how poor our skills-sets have been developed. Almost every technician in my district has the A+. Few have anything more. Few have any real concept of network hardware, server administration, security management, web development, hardware bench support I could go on, and on. It is my belief that most technicians at UPS would likely have to settle for about two-thirds their current salary outside of UPS. I may be wrong; it is just my opinion.
<O
></O>For those technicians that will have to leave UPS, I wish them well. I hope they kept their skills honed by outside education and side-work. If they didnt, I feel for them. If there is one thing that we can really agree on is that UPS has had very little interest in a highly skilled technician workforce. I like that they paid for the A+ (time, travel, and testing). This was great. However, it is the only great thing I can remember concerning training and development. The horrible district training teams and SMS are so ridiculous that it is not productive to even discuss further.
<O
></O>If you like technology and feel threatened by this round of layoffs, please make a conscious decision to take your future into your own hands. You are going to have to keep your skills sharp. While this might be the first TSG layoff, it doesnt have to mean that it will be the end. Not sure, see the Center of Future (COF).
<O
></O>If you have a passion for technology, and dont work in North Jersey, you cannot expect but so much at UPS. Centralized administration, consolidated Helpdesks, and proprietary hardware and software dont lend to district technician excitement and fulfillment. If you really want technology, I just dont think UPS is the place for it.
<O
></O>I traded fulfillment and challenge for an easy job, great benefits, decent pay, and, mostly, for the security that UPS has afforded hundreds of thousands of employees for nearly 100 years. Now that the security is gone, those other things have lost a lot of their luster.
<O
></O>I know a lot of you will read this message and find fault with one or more things Ive said. I promised to be honest, and I think I have. Hell, if TIEGUY can spew forth, why cant I.
<O
></O>Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of my TSG life. My palm has lines that run long. Perhaps to some it is an omen of a long life. I hope so. For others, their palms are sweaty and their lines short. Perhaps to some it is an omen of a perilous life. To those, may your unemployment lines be short. May your unemployment time be shorter.
<O
></O>To those who always call the Helpdesk, long life. To those who make the effort for the most part, a good life. And to those who knock upon my door, much strife. For you have taken my brothers UPS life.
I think the biggest issue we are having in my district is the fact that since the announcement last Tuesday we have been told nothing ....
I have a wife, kids, mortgage and all that other happy stuff. I can see where UPS is going with this and in their opinion its the right cost cutting move.
What I want to know is, have the people making these decisions ever been to an extended center serviced buy a TSG technican that does both internal and external?
I cover 4 centers, 3 being on PAS, I do both Internal work and External work (in about a 250 mile radius) and I will tell you, I dont need to fudge my PMT. Will I have a TSG job? Probably not because of my length of service.
Management in my buildings are more stressed about my job then I am ... When I was needed I was there. From training, covering for dispatch sup vacations all the way to supporting on road sups I do it all.
I have not even had the chance to talk to an HR rep ... I have called daily for a week and never received a return call.
What I did was take the issue into my own hands which I feel alot of you may want to do also .... I went to the Division Manager that covers my centers and explained my situation.
If I lose my position in the next few days/weeks/months I have been assured of a full time Package Driver position (I was lucky enough for the outside spot to be open at this point) I appreciate the efforts of the management team I work for but I will be losing almost $9 per hour to start before the driver progression plus lose all seniority I currently have.
At this point do I stay with UPS and be driver or take my 14 years experience and college degree to another company ....
Just a bad deal.
I have a wife, kids, mortgage and all that other happy stuff. I can see where UPS is going with this and in their opinion its the right cost cutting move.
What I want to know is, have the people making these decisions ever been to an extended center serviced buy a TSG technican that does both internal and external?
I cover 4 centers, 3 being on PAS, I do both Internal work and External work (in about a 250 mile radius) and I will tell you, I dont need to fudge my PMT. Will I have a TSG job? Probably not because of my length of service.
Management in my buildings are more stressed about my job then I am ... When I was needed I was there. From training, covering for dispatch sup vacations all the way to supporting on road sups I do it all.
I have not even had the chance to talk to an HR rep ... I have called daily for a week and never received a return call.
What I did was take the issue into my own hands which I feel alot of you may want to do also .... I went to the Division Manager that covers my centers and explained my situation.
If I lose my position in the next few days/weeks/months I have been assured of a full time Package Driver position (I was lucky enough for the outside spot to be open at this point) I appreciate the efforts of the management team I work for but I will be losing almost $9 per hour to start before the driver progression plus lose all seniority I currently have.
At this point do I stay with UPS and be driver or take my 14 years experience and college degree to another company ....
Just a bad deal.
S
SEA1SUX
Guest
Sam:
You make a few good points, but in our district have a name for the guys who think it's ok to just sit on their a** all day waiting for a log to come in while the rest of us are running and gunning to keep things flowing.
We call them dead wood.
I think you should seriously consider stepping down from your position and letting someone more willing to work take it.
JMHO
You make a few good points, but in our district have a name for the guys who think it's ok to just sit on their a** all day waiting for a log to come in while the rest of us are running and gunning to keep things flowing.
We call them dead wood.
I think you should seriously consider stepping down from your position and letting someone more willing to work take it.
JMHO
tieguy
Banned
HEY! Can't I get get any love tieguy?
I'M the one who originally posted the email!!!1
hehe
I am assuming you are somewhere in management, judging from you comments and demeanor. Have you spoken with any affected technicians about this, or are you just getting all your information from corporate?
I have a lot of friends in TSG. I had a chance to work an in a district job about 8 years ago helping implement some upgrades to our scanning systems. I had a chance to work with some top notch TSG folks in district at the time who were top notch in their efforts and dedication. And they were definitely a huge help in supporting my efforts. They basically gave me the keys to the palace on anything I needed. In the process I also had a chance to develop close working relationships with TSG people up to third level support. Again I'm not trying to alibi the layoffs, I sincerely hope we are able to find a way to move everyone and hold onto the talent we have acquired and developed over the years. I did feel I needed to jump in and try to kill some of the hysteria which I realistically should expect would come out of something so traumitizing. Sorry I did not thank you earlier.
I'M the one who originally posted the email!!!
1 hehe
I am assuming you are somewhere in management, judging from you comments and demeanor. Have you spoken with any affected technicians about this, or are you just getting all your information from corporate?
I have a lot of friends in TSG. I had a chance to work an in a district job about 8 years ago helping implement some upgrades to our scanning systems. I had a chance to work with some top notch TSG folks in district at the time who were top notch in their efforts and dedication. And they were definitely a huge help in supporting my efforts. They basically gave me the keys to the palace on anything I needed. In the process I also had a chance to develop close working relationships with TSG people up to third level support. Again I'm not trying to alibi the layoffs, I sincerely hope we are able to find a way to move everyone and hold onto the talent we have acquired and developed over the years. I did feel I needed to jump in and try to kill some of the hysteria which I realistically should expect would come out of something so traumitizing. Sorry I did not thank you earlier.
brown_blood
Member
tieguy said:
Other than the company propaganda which you never could produce, to which "communiques" are you refering.
And yes, I don't sense you are having any problem at all staying calm while watching others lose their livelyhood.
Last edited:
brown_blood
Member
tieguy said:
LOL You really think people take you seriously, don't you? I really am starting think is not just an act that you have for this forum, but that you are actually like this all the time.
Anyhow, back on the subject of you dodging questions, which other emails, memos, PCMs, ect... are you refering to?
TSG_Lackie
Member
moreluck said:
That Laundry list came from UPSERS.COM, Not Me.
My whole point was the amount of money they made in 2005 and the fact that they are still laying us off.
At this point I could care less about the price of the stock, that wasn't my point to begin with, I have bigger worries at this point and time.
That and the stock price has been going up and down over the last several months anyway. Nothing new there.
If that long list bothers anyone, I'm sorry. I guess I could have chopped it down some, but i figured something may have gotten lost in the translation. I posted the whole article so you could read it and come to your own conclusion.
Don't worry the stock price will go back up.
unregistered guest
Member
Sideline Sam said:
I suspect you are correct. I believe a lot of the hysterics here validate your observation.
<o ="">
</o>You have to ask yourself why they chose a career with technical in the job title. Was it because they enjoyed technical things and had aptitude in that area? Was it just a coin-toss because they had to pick something and high-tech sounded sexy?
<o ="">
</o>Maybe in college they could handle the math and CS courses but couldnt handle the chemistry so they picked CS over chemistry major? Or maybe they could handle math/CS but not the physics so chose CS over engineering?
<o ="">
</o>Ive got to tell you anything CS/IT or otherwise technical in nature is not necessarily synonymous with stability or longevity.
<o ="">
</o>Thats because any application, system, process, or project has a life cycle. Your function is directly related to some portion of that life cycle. When that life cycle ends so does your relevance to the company.
<o ="">
</o>In some cases a company will continue developing other projects and will roll you into the next new one. Thats fine if it happens but is just icing on the cake and is the exception.
<o ="">
</o>A project may take several development teams and may require 150 developers to design, create and launch. Once it is rolled out you dont need all those developers. You only need a small percentage to maintain and support it. At some point it will be displaced and they wont be needed anymore.
<o ="">
</o>That is life in a technical field. Doesnt matter what company you work for. Product developer will probably work at a minimum of four different companies over their career.
<o ="">
</o>Thats why they keep up to date on the latest/greatest. Also why they join various tech-related clubs partly because they occasionally have speakers and demonstrations of products and it is of interest to them but also to develop a network of peers at other companies and in other industries.
<o ="">
</o>It has been reported that something like 87% of tech-related job openings are filled by word-of-mouth. They are never posted to the general public. Someone that is aware of the opening just happens to know someone looking for work.
<o ="">
</o>Thats why they have the Golden Rule of get up to speed, stay up to speed, and develop a network of peers. That network is invaluable right now.
<o ="">
</o>Those with the initiative and skills/knowledge are probably already interviewing or lining up interviews. The rest are too busy complaining and will soon be scrambling around fighting each other over the remaining 13% of jobs posted publicly.
<o ="">
</o>Or worse theyll be trying to finagle a feeder or package driver job I cant fathom why theyd want to do it. I cant fathom why UPS would allow it. Theyre over-qualified from the standpoint that they have somewhat-marketable skills that can be applied elsewhere. Theyll bail out the first time someone comes along with an offer for something technical particularly after about a week of driving.
<o ="">
</o>You want to waste the time and energy to train someone thatll last two weeks tops? Maybe two months in rare instances? I wouldnt either.
T
TSG flunkie
Guest
None of that really applies to TSG or TSC technicians. We are not product developers or designers by ANY stretch. Our job is much more simple but important nonetheless.
We are more like caretakers to the products (ie software apps) that are deployed even though we may not get the first shredd of training pertaining to the product and how it works. We are also here to maintain the hardware.
While for the time being trouble calls may have died down a bit due to varying reasons...... the move from WinNT to Win2K and the fact that almost all PC's have been upgraded to P4's. Sooner or later those P4's will become antiques and start to break down. But by then we may not have enough technicians left to support a Mom & Pop operation muchless a multi-million dollar corporation.
And I am curious, when UPS announced this it was said that things were moving towards a more automated company. More automation undoubtedly requires more technology. So wouldn't you think that automation would lend itself to replacing laborers or perhaps higher paid skilled laborers....instead of cutting the staff that will be responsible for keeping all these automated processes running? Just a thought.....
We are more like caretakers to the products (ie software apps) that are deployed even though we may not get the first shredd of training pertaining to the product and how it works. We are also here to maintain the hardware.
While for the time being trouble calls may have died down a bit due to varying reasons...... the move from WinNT to Win2K and the fact that almost all PC's have been upgraded to P4's. Sooner or later those P4's will become antiques and start to break down. But by then we may not have enough technicians left to support a Mom & Pop operation muchless a multi-million dollar corporation.
And I am curious, when UPS announced this it was said that things were moving towards a more automated company. More automation undoubtedly requires more technology. So wouldn't you think that automation would lend itself to replacing laborers or perhaps higher paid skilled laborers....instead of cutting the staff that will be responsible for keeping all these automated processes running? Just a thought.....
A
Anonymous Coward
Guest
wily_old_vet said:
In my district there are 31 TSG employees. They are reducing down to 19 technicians. I have yet to hear anyone mention that UPS is hypocritical about its policy to hire from within. In my district in the last two months they have hired at 5 outside employees into IE and other positions that TSG technicians are more than qualified to do. Also, that 6 of the above mention technicians are within 5 years of retirement. Gzz, add the outside newhires and the retirees. This downsizing could occur without any layoffs had workforce planning and corporate planned better. Fact is they just don't care anymore.
