Vaccine mandate

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Explain away its precursor in the Declaration of Independence, were the same founding fathers proclaimed;

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

What did this really mean according to you?
What did it mean according to them?

All peoples have these rights. All governments among men should secure or protect those rights. And American government should secure those rights for Americans.

There is nothing implied in there that American government should secure those rights for everyone around the world or have everyone come here.

They reason from the universal truth, that all men have these rights, to the particular, that the American government should protect those rights for Americans.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
What did it mean according to them?

All peoples have these rights. All governments among men should secure or protect those rights. And American government should secure those rights for Americans.

There is nothing implied in there that American government should secure those rights for everyone around the world or have everyone come here.

They reason from the universal truth, that all men have these rights, to the particular, that the American government should protect those rights for Americans.
Nevermind.

First you interject Japan into your analogy, now somehow the it's everyone around the world?

I'm not understanding your point and have quite frankly lost interest.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Ok...

Really?

You are suggesting the apocalypse?

The day 30% lose their jobs in America?

The apocalypse has already begun. The ruling by SCOTUS will be the difference between a smooth transition to whatever happens after and complete chaos for years to come.

And I use apocalypse with it's original definition, not the modern "end of the world" definition. The Mayans may have been correct that 2012 was the end of an epoch, and we are in a transitional period.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Explain away its precursor in the Declaration of Independence, were the same founding fathers proclaimed;

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

What did this really mean according to you?

I'm glad you brought Declaration of Independence up. That is the founding document of this nation, and that line provides the very key to interpreting the constitution. This was revolutionary thinking at the time. Most people were still trying to grasp these ideals within the context of the systems they grew up in.

The man considered most responsible for drafting that document was himself a slave-owner. Did he free his slaves the second the US declared its independence? Nope. Does that make the truth of his words less authoritative? Nope. Is the truth of those words diminished by the failure of everyone to live up to them over and over? Nope. Those words describe an ideal towards which we must align ourselves.

We will fail, over and over, as we have for centuries, but we will only ultimately fail if we give up and lose our orientation towards life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for everyone. Those words aren't a guarantee of any particular set of circumstances. They are a guarantee that we will be free to pursue the life we want regardless of the circumstances we find ourselves in.

Our rights only being constrained by the rights of others and the obligations we freely accept upon ourselves. Freedom to face the consequences of our choices, good or bad, freedom to learn from our mistakes and enjoy the fruits of our good decisions. Freedom to grow as people and follow the dictates of our own consciences. A nanny state inhibits that personal growth, as it removes the sense of responsibility from the individual. That, to paraphrase CS Lewis, makes the nanny state the most oppressive form of tyranny.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
You could include some pictures of white sheets and confederate flags, but again nevermind.

I'm not buying what you're selling.
I'm not selling anything or even arguing what's right or wrong.

I'm informing you that the constitution was only intended for them and their American posterity, in line with the definition listed by Webster.
 

UnionStrong

Sorry, but I don’t care anymore.
I'm glad you brought Declaration of Independence up. That is the founding document of this nation, and that line provides the very key to interpreting the constitution. This was revolutionary thinking at the time. Most people were still trying to grasp these ideals within the context of the systems they grew up in.

The man considered most responsible for drafting that document was himself a slave-owner. Did he free his slaves the second the US declared its independence? Nope. Does that make the truth of his words less authoritative? Nope. Is the truth of those words diminished by the failure of everyone to live up to them over and over? Nope. Those words describe an ideal towards which we must align ourselves.

We will fail, over and over, as we have for centuries, but we will only ultimately fail if we give up and lose our orientation towards life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for everyone. Those words aren't a guarantee of any particular set of circumstances. They are a guarantee that we will be free to pursue the life we want regardless of the circumstances we find ourselves in.

Our rights only being constrained by the rights of others and the obligations we freely accept upon ourselves. Freedom to face the consequences of our choices, good or bad, freedom to learn from our mistakes and enjoy the fruits of our good decisions. Freedom to grow as people and follow the dictates of our own consciences. A nanny state inhibits that personal growth, as it removes the sense of responsibility from the individual. That, to paraphrase CS Lewis, makes the nanny state the most oppressive form of tyranny.
Progress, not perfection
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Progress, not perfection

And not the twisted form of "progress". A fake progress (truly a regression) whereby agitators try to divide us along any and every social line they can think of in order to rouse base vices of envy and resentment by using the impossible standard of perfection, which we can never achieve, to convict their perceived enemies. They do this in order to create chaos, through which they can further the cause of tyranny. It's the oldest trick in the book, and is so often very effective.
 

Netsua 3:16

AND THAT’S THE BOTTOM LINE
And not the twisted form of "progress". A fake progress (truly a regression) whereby agitators try to divide us along any and every social line they can think of in order to rouse base vices of envy and resentment by using the impossible standard of perfection, which we can never achieve, to convict their perceived enemies. They do this in order to create chaos, through which they can further the cause of tyranny. It's the oldest trick in the book, and is so often very effective.
Overall I agree with you. A couple questions;
Why do you succumb to the “agitators” who try to divide us along any and every social line?
We all read you constantly insulting vaccinated individuals and making claims like “only totalitarians disagree with my ability to choose.” You say divisive stuff all the time. You feed into the chaos.
One more question:
I understand that you view the pandemic as an opportunity for the “ruling class” or financial elite or whatever; you view this as a conduit to their desire to “chain” us down.
Could it be, you know, that the virus just occurred naturally like other pandemics throughout human history? The bureaucratic tape is annoying for all of us. Even those of us who are vaccinated. I watch that talking head Fauci spew bs and just shake my head. I don’t make my decisions for them; I gather information and choose to take the vaccine because I believe that is in out of our best interests. I don’t care that you disagree. It’s ok.
What’s not ok; is playing th martyr all the time and acting as if you have access to this ultimate truth that we all just can’t comprehend. We are well aware of the fact that there is massive, worldwide corruption at every twist and turn.
This is not a reason to not take a vaccine. It’s not, man.
You need to pick your battles.
You can’t absolutely quantify your theories about the virus; the wuhan lab, it’s all speculative bs. Nothing has been proved.
Yet, you pitch your flag to this great cause; as if the future of our democracy depends on it.
It doesn’t.
 

UnionStrong

Sorry, but I don’t care anymore.
And not the twisted form of "progress". A fake progress (truly a regression) whereby agitators try to divide us along any and every social line they can think of in order to rouse base vices of envy and resentment by using the impossible standard of perfection, which we can never achieve, to convict their perceived enemies. They do this in order to create chaos, through which they can further the cause of tyranny. It's the oldest trick in the book, and is so often very effective.
We can never be perfect but we can work towards a more perfect union. Not the way ‘progressives’ want, but within the framework of the constitution.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
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