UPS laying off Technical hourly employees

[tieguy]

It's irrelevant because you were wrong, again.

I do like the quote in your profile.
I like mine better.
BTW - you are a bit of a Bonehead.

"Say what you know, not what you think you know"

Thats quite allright . I know when I stopped by your doublewide your folks were inside praying to a bonehead. But the fact is I'm really not interested in all this flattery.

Is there anyone out there that has the answer and is not hell bent on spreading misinformation as these two ********* have been?

 

[tieguy]

by the way I love it when I get a liberal provoked enough to attack that which he/she would normally defend in this case the gay issue.

By the way I'm about 75 percent sure you are Susan. Keep talking I'll figure it out.

 

[Anon]

What Las Vegas is now is totally irrelevant. The question again is what is the plans for the future. In the company literature the appear to mention moving affected employees into what appears to be outsourced jobs. If so then the consolidation of TSC into Las Vegas might mean it would be converted into one help desk staffed by UPSers. My question was really directed to someone in that area who unlike Brown might have brain and an answer.

I was not aware UPS had the ability to move employees to other (outsourced) companies. The most they would be able to do is make recommendations to the other company. But honestly, how many companies who are laying people off are trying to find their displaced workers new jobs at other companies? I've never heard of it, even by companies who only lay off as a last resort. And since many Helpdesk techs who have already received their severance packages have not reported any such behavior, we've seen no evidence at all of this regardless of the corporate literature. If they were hired by the "other" company, they would, by definition, no longer be UPSers. Additionally, we have been told the following by HR "Anyone who takes the SAP will be flagged as "No Rehire", and the SAP agreement has a clause "...that I will not seek employment with the Company or any of its affiliates in the future." - again confirming they will never again be UPSers. And might the outsourced desk be considered an affiliate? I've seen credible information posted here from many sources - information which is being corroborated by HR in my district. If there is a corporate memo stating contrary policies, PLEASE post it. It could save many jobs

 

[broke.in.tsg]

Here's the first thing to do.....

click on USER CP at the top left
scroll down till you get to Buddy / Ignore Lists - click it
on the right, under the ignore list, type in tieguy and hit add

tieguy has nothing better to do than just drive his benz and H2 around and then take his big idiot stick to stir up the boards.
enjoy!

 

[TSG_Lackie]

by the way I love it when I get a liberal provoked enough to attack that which he/she would normally defend in this case the gay issue.

By the way I'm about 75 percent sure you are Susan. Keep talking I'll figure it out.

.......and you'll do what? have her layed off??

 

[SeniorGeek]

Geek,

How does the date thing work? In our district, we have a bunch of areas that are geographically distanced apart. Does the seniority work by area or district wide. Seems like there is potential to be fat in one area with old folks and lean in those with younger people. That can't be right.

There isn't really a date that is set by HR/TSG, there is a staffing level - but that staffing level determines how many jobs will remain. In our District, the 14th person on the seniority list started in late-1996 or early-1997. The 15th through 38th people are "below the line". Those above the line are assured a job offer.

Our list includes only Portland Metro area techs. There are 3 other techs in the District who are 100 miles or more from Portland, and they are not part of the current workforce reduction. I *think* there's a rule of thumb about a 50-mile radius, but I don't think it's part of any law covering termination.

By "old" and "young", I assume you mean "high-seniority" and "low-seniority". (*I* was born in a 48-state Union.)

If our 3 distant techs were included in a District-wide pool, with a staffing target of 17 people, all 3 would still be below the line. I don't know if anyone in Portland would find it suitable to be offered the job that is 250 miles away. Or 190 miles away. Or 115 miles away. Now I'm not sure what you are saying can't be right....

 

[SeniorGeek]

Some interesting things about the Separation Allowance Plan (SAP) contract I was given:

• First, I hear there are four versions. One version for District employees above 40 years of age, another for District employees below 40 years of age, plus both above- and below-40 versions for the Region (TSC) employees.
• The above-40 versions address the Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA). The part about our payment includes, "I acknowledge that twenty-five percent of the payment is being paid to induce me to release any claims I may have under the [ADEA]". No, we aren't getting paid more for being over 40, but we'll get less if we claim age discrimination.
• There's a clause that any disputes about interpretation of the contract will go to arbitration...in Atlanta, with an arbitrator licensed to practice in Georgia. The laws of Georgia shall apply, and the decision of the arbitrator is binding.
• "I agree not to criticize, denigrate, or disparage any Released Party." (The SAP payment is hush money. You won't find many former technicians posting on Brown Cafe after signing the SAP.)
• "I acknowledge and agree that the terms of this Release must be kept strictly confidential. Accordingly, I agree not to disclose or publish to any person or entity, except as required by law or as necessary to prepare tax returns, the terms and conditions or sums being paid in connection with this Release." (Note: Our signing date is still in the future. Another note: UPS appears to acknowledge that some people believe that divulging earnings on tax returns is not required by law.)
• "I acknowledge that, before signing this Release, I was given at least 45 calendar days to consider this Release, as well as the attached statistical data and information." (The signing date is set as 2/10/2006. Math is left to the reader.)

Things I'll be asking an attorney to interpret:

• "Claims I am releasing include, without limitation, claims under...the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, which, among other things, protects employee benefits;" - does this mean they can deny retirement benefits I've accrued?
• "I agree that my employment with the Company has been terminated and that I will not seek employment with the Company or any of its affiliates in the future." - is there an accepted legal definition of "affiliates"? I want to know where I might be denied employment in the future.
• "I waive any provision of law that limits waivers of unknown claims." - can laws limiting waivers of waiver-limiting laws be waived? Does that make any sense?
• "I fully understand what this release means" - so I guess the part about waiving waiver-limiting laws must make sense, otherwise I wouldn't fully understand it.

 

[TSG_Lackie]

Yeah, I kind of figured there'd be a few legal mumbo jumbo statements that would warrant getting a lawyer to put into laymens terms for us.

UPS isn't going to make it easy, nor will there be many if any loop holes.

I should get my letter by Wednesday, hmmmmm I wonder what it'll say.......

 

[halo]

I am curious to know if any of you who are being downsized are going to recieve your vacation and D days. How are they addressing this?

 

[ncrtscisme]

good summary, SeniorGeek! I have my package, and I wonder about some of the same things you're wondering about...I can tell you that a tech I know who took the separation package was told by HR that you ARE still allowed to recieve your pension when you retire.

halo, the package states that we will recieve pay for all unused discretionary days and vacation days as if we were working the entire year (if you normally would get 4 vacation weeks this year and you don't use any of them up, you will get paid for all 4 weeks).

Separation package pay
=
2 weeks pay
+
1 week for every year you have with UPS
+
all unused discretionary days
+
all unused vacation days for the year
+
1 week for every month worked after Jan 31 (this applies to region 02 TSC, we close sometime in May)
+
4 weeks bonus pay for those who take the separation package who were above the "line" (in our case, hired before july 1999 and in a position that is going to stay)

 

[Sev 6]

good summary, SeniorGeek! I have my package, and I wonder about some of the same things you're wondering about...I can tell you that a tech I know who took the separation package was told by HR that you ARE still allowed to recieve your pension when you retire.

halo, the package states that we will recieve pay for all unused discretionary days and vacation days as if we were working the entire year (if you normally would get 4 vacation weeks this year and you don't use any of them up, you will get paid for all 4 weeks).

Separation package pay
=
2 weeks pay
+
1 week for every year you have with UPS
+
all unused discretionary days
+
all unused vacation days for the year
+
1 week for every month worked after Jan 31 (this applies to region 02 TSC, we close sometime in May)
+
4 weeks bonus pay for those who take the separation package who were above the "line" (in our case, hired before july 1999 and in a position that is going to stay)

Any information on when your health/insurance benefits end?

 

[Sev 5]

Some interesting things about the Separation Allowance Plan (SAP) contract I was given:

• First, I hear there are four versions. One version for District employees above 40 years of age, another for District employees below 40 years of age, plus both above- and below-40 versions for the Region (TSC) employees.
• The above-40 versions address the Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA). The part about our payment includes, "I acknowledge that twenty-five percent of the payment is being paid to induce me to release any claims I may have under the [ADEA]". No, we aren't getting paid more for being over 40, but we'll get less if we claim age discrimination.
• There's a clause that any disputes about interpretation of the contract will go to arbitration...in Atlanta, with an arbitrator licensed to practice in Georgia. The laws of Georgia shall apply, and the decision of the arbitrator is binding.
• "I agree not to criticize, denigrate, or disparage any Released Party." (The SAP payment is hush money. You won't find many former technicians posting on Brown Cafe after signing the SAP.)
• "I acknowledge and agree that the terms of this Release must be kept strictly confidential. Accordingly, I agree not to disclose or publish to any person or entity, except as required by law or as necessary to prepare tax returns, the terms and conditions or sums being paid in connection with this Release." (Note: Our signing date is still in the future. Another note: UPS appears to acknowledge that some people believe that divulging earnings on tax returns is not required by law.)
• "I acknowledge that, before signing this Release, I was given at least 45 calendar days to consider this Release, as well as the attached statistical data and information." (The signing date is set as 2/10/2006. Math is left to the reader.)

Things I'll be asking an attorney to interpret:

• "Claims I am releasing include, without limitation, claims under...the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, which, among other things, protects employee benefits;" - does this mean they can deny retirement benefits I've accrued?
• "I agree that my employment with the Company has been terminated and that I will not seek employment with the Company or any of its affiliates in the future." - is there an accepted legal definition of "affiliates"? I want to know where I might be denied employment in the future.
• "I waive any provision of law that limits waivers of unknown claims." - can laws limiting waivers of waiver-limiting laws be waived? Does that make any sense?
• "I fully understand what this release means" - so I guess the part about waiving waiver-limiting laws must make sense, otherwise I wouldn't fully understand it.

Please let us know what you find. I'm interested in knowing whether the agreement includes a "waiver" of retirement benefits later in life.

By the way, does anyone know when(at what age) a Tech is entitled to pension/retirement pay if they don't retire from UPS at 55?

 

[Bummed]

Yeah, I kind of figured there'd be a few legal mumbo jumbo statements that would warrant getting a lawyer to put into laymens terms for us.

UPS isn't going to make it easy, nor will there be many if any loop holes.

I should get my letter by Wednesday, hmmmmm I wonder what it'll say.......

Let us know if your info is different than already posted.

I know of a couple techs who would like to leave but don't have anything lined-up to take advantage of the separation. While 20 or so weeks sounds great for someone with a good deal of seniority, it is still not realistic when you consider how long it might take to land another job making the same wages. The loss of benefits may be a concern as well.

What sucks is the number of techs that may leave sometime in the next year after this ordeal. It is terrible that former techs will not be allowed to return to fill these jobs as people retire, advance, or leave.

 

[brown_blood]

by the way I love it when I get a liberal provoked enough to attack that which he/she would normally defend in this case the gay issue.

By the way I'm about 75 percent sure you are Susan. Keep talking I'll figure it out.

What, exactly, are you talking about??? You should refrain from posting while under the influence.

 

[montecarlo12]

Brown_blood,
Dont waste your time with Tieguy. he's a clown. I caught him in three lies in to days of posting. He has no back bone and I have yet to see a post in which he used any facts. Anyone who has been on Brown Cafe for any period of time knows he has no credibility.

Tieguy,
maybe you should change your T to an L....it seems to be a perfect fit Bozo!

 

[brown_blood]

Brown_blood,
Dont waste your time with Tieguy. he's a clown. I caught him in three lies in to days of posting. He has no back bone and I have yet to see a post in which he used any facts. Anyone who has been on Brown Cafe for any period of time knows he has no credibility.

Tieguy,
maybe you should change your T to an L....it seems to be a perfect fit Bozo!

I hear you monte. I doubt he is actually management anyhow. Just a whiney part-time sup, or an OMS that spends his days listening to gossip, then has his little fantasyland on here!

There were a couple of questions about retirement benefits and medical posted. With a normal separation, you will be entitled to your pension at 55; the amount you will receive is based on a formula using your years of service and the average of your last 5 years pay. There are a couple of things to beware of, however. They will send you a letter explaining your benefit: at what age you will be able to collect and the estimated amount you will get. You must have at least 5 full time years in to be eligible. Part time years are counted as 1/2 year each. They only estimate the amount of your last 5 years salary. If you want them to use the actual amount you have to challenge their numbers, but you cannot do that until you are within 6mos of retirement age. In addition, the letter they send you will be the only letter they send you. It will up to you to contact the company at 55, or you will lose the benefit. If you have a teamster retirement coming that will affect your UPS retirement, based on several factors. If your teamster retirement is substantial, you may want to start investigating your options early on as to how UPS will calculate your amount, as they have several formulas they use, with the default normally being the most favorable to UPS. As whether the language in the technician SAP says that you are not eligible for your retirement, I doubt it. I believe at this point in time any nonunion UPSer with at least 5 years gets some amount at 55 regardless of circumstances of separation. The clauses in the contract most likely protect the company in case of a change that would affect your benefit, i.e. they eliminate the pension, and elect to pay you a lump sum as opposed to an ongoing benefit.
Of course I would have a competent contract/employment attorney read ant documents before signing.
As to medical benfits, that depends on how they define your payout amount. If they are paying you the equivalent of 12 weeks pay, is it reported as compensation for the next 12 weeks, or is it a lump sum payout for an unspecified pay period. I would suspect it is the latter, which means that your medical will run through the last defined pay period they actually take your payment out of your check. So, if your weekly, and this were your last week, your medical would run through the end of next week. If youre monthly, it will always run through the last day of the month of separation. In this scenario, you should be able to collect unemployment beginning the week after next.

Those are the rules as I know them in my district, as always, your mileage may vary.

 

[TSG_Lets_Unionize]

Hey I think we should have a rally day, where all TSG/TSC/Admin around the country gather at lunch time and talk about unionizing, maybe take a straw vote. One person could be in charge of presenting this info to local union rep and maybe we can kick this thing into high gear!

I was thinking valentines day would be kinda cool



-

 

[halo]

Hey I think we should have a rally day, where all TSG/TSC/Admin around the country gather at lunch time and talk about unionizing, maybe take a straw vote. One person could be in charge of presenting this info to local union rep and maybe we can kick this thing into high gear!

I was thinking valentines day would be kinda cool



-

Is there not a pro-union segment on these forums that you could post in? I find this just as annoying as everyone bickering with tieguy. When I came here, I was looking for valid information from other techs/tsc who are affected by this downsizing. Instead I get constant popup ads about a union. Please, start a new thread and push the union there. Call it "If you came to BrownCafe looking for information on making TSG unionized, go here"

 

[tieguy]

Brown_blood,
Dont waste your time with Tieguy. he's a clown. I caught him in three lies in to days of posting. He has no back bone and I have yet to see a post in which he used any facts. Anyone who has been on Brown Cafe for any period of time knows he has no credibility.

Tieguy,
maybe you should change your T to an L....it seems to be a perfect fit Bozo!

Ah yes posted by the fdx guy I slap around for kicks and giggles. You have to have facts before you can "catch" anyone at anything. You might want to try catching some of your customers before we take them all.

 

[dannyboy]

Monte

Finally found someone that does not know you and dislikes Tie? What an accomplishment for a full time looser.

As for some of the posts that have appeared, I would hope they are posted by rabble not affiliated in any way with the great people being let go in such a disgusting manner.

Although I have asked for "help" at times and all I have gotten in the past were those that have talked down to me when I was just asking for information that I did not know. But I would assume that none of those types work for the help desk at UPS?

As for outsourcing, how can UPS think it can come out ahead? Maybe hire 30 in India for the price of one here? But how do you come out ahead? Money savings or better service and answers?

Getting the best for your buck seems to be what everyone wants these days. Cheap is UGLY. It would seem that we got good value for the money spent on the support services. Unless there was a great amount of time spent around the cooler or surfing the net while on company time, why turn out such a dedicated workforce? To save a few bucks? Nah, I think something else is brewing.

Something is not right in Brownsville.

Might be time to pull out the pencil pushers instead of everyone else?

d