UPS laying off Technical hourly employees

[RetiredandLovingIT]

I guess I have stirred the pot again.


For those of you out there that believe I am a member of the management ranks at UPS, I am not (by choice).


Those which have chosen to reply in regard to my post have again made what I like to call "false assumptions". Can anyone out there give me a definition of "personal achievement"? Can you define the term "equality"?


"Personal achievement" to me stands for what I strive for and try to attain, not only in my career but in my everyday life. In my world, I have no hidden agendas for what I desire to accomplish, both personally and professionally. I desire to be consistent. I desire to help my fellow man through various fund-raising activities. I desire to make a difference, whether it be at home or at work. I am willing to go the extra mile to help someone if necessary. These are a microcosm of what "personal achievement" means to me. If someone chooses to brand me using their definition of this phrase, I now understand why. They can't understand or even begin to comprehend my definition of it at all...


What about "equality"? When I mention it in regard to a union environment, it really brings one very clear example to mind: I'm now doing the same job as several people. All of us are paid the same wages. However, I am doing twice the work as most in our department. That is my reference to equality. I definitely prefer to be judged on my capabilities and what I bring to the table.


If I must be judged, please judge me by the same life criteria I use. Do not use some jaded concept of what you might believe my "twisted" mind might be trying to stick in front of you. I am sorry, I really don't function like that.


UPS Management is not perfect nor will it ever be. It has a very large internal political machine. As with all politics, some can get ugly. Not all choices will be popular. I do not pretend to have all the answers. I am just against union membership for what I choose to do for a career. It's not really necessary...

 

[trickpony1]

" I am just against union membership......".
"It's really not necessary.".

It's clear that you haven't had to deal with some of the company's finest who are only interested in how they can get another feather in their cap so they can get promoted even higher.

The union contract has language that specifically addresses issues that apply to covered employees such as what TSG is currently going through.

Where is their protection?

 

[TSG_Lets_Unionize]

What about "equality"? When I mention it in regard to a union environment, it really brings one very clear example to mind: I'm now doing the same job as several people. All of us are paid the same wages. However, I am doing twice the work as most in our department. That is my reference to equality. I definitely prefer to be judged on my capabilities and what I bring to the table.

Ok you are CLEARLY not in TSG. Everyone in TSG gets the same exact pay reduction every year. Less than inflation, regardless of "achivement".

It's all about years of service. Just like the...

 

[TSG_Brown_06]

Ok you are CLEARLY not in TSG. Everyone in TSG gets the same exact pay reduction every year. Less than inflation, regardless of "achivement".

Want to know something?

If your district is constrained after the recent "downsizing" then you can expect that there will not be any promotions in TSG to management for the next year.

According to the severance packages handed out, UPS will not be hiring any for TSG positions for the next year. That also means that people within UPS cannot transfer into TSG/TSC. Thus, no TSC/TSG employees will be promoted to management: PSI, CTSS, or BD, as an AE for one year.

Even the survivors of the slaughtering are getting screwed. Cheerful thought for a Friday, eh?

 

[pdx1jsb]

Ok you are CLEARLY not in TSG. Everyone in TSG gets the same exact pay reduction every year. Less than inflation, regardless of "achivement".

It's all about years of service. Just like the...

...union!

No, CurrentUPSer is clearly not in TSG, ever been in TSG or know anything about TSG. That section of the company is ran exactly like a Union with NONE OF THE UNION PROTECTION. Anyone that has experience in the department will agree. Almost everything in TSG is decided on 'length of service' (a.k.a. seniority). Technicians over 'midpoint' get the same 2% raise no matter how hard they work. Level 1 technicians become Sr Techs if they have enough time with the company and have maxed out the Level 1 payscale. It takes more paperwork and documentation to fire somebody in TSG than it does to fire a Union person (unless you call it consolidation and drop hundreds across the country!).

At least when you're union there are clear guidelines and job expectations. Not some bull**** PMT Planned day moving target. And when you don't like something you have a real forum... complain to the union and something can be done at the next bargaining agreement.

I must say I agree with SeniorGeek's comments about working to become more marketable before spending time organizing TSG. If I were still in TSG that is what I would do, as somebody that was in TSG I had plans from almost day one to leave (either UPS management positions or outside opportunities) but...If TSG is what you like join TSG_Lets_Unionize and ORGANIZE. The worst that could happen is after TSG became union it wouldn't be too bad for the people passing through. It might even become a place those people decide to spend 20+ years working.

Just my opinion... If you don't like it do something about it. Whether you leave or try to make it better is up to you. Giving 1's and 2's on the ERI isn't going to help you.

 

[RetiredandLovingIT]

Amazing! Here we go again...

This will be my last post on this forum. I would like to state several things and make them very clear:

1) I am a member of TSG.
2) I am not in management.
3) I am truly sorry for those which have lost their jobs.
4) I make no apologies to anyone for my ideologies and beliefs in regard to unionization. The statements are made in good faith and based on honest judgment.
5) Any statements I have made on this forum are mine and mine alone.
6) I have had to deal with those that aspire to ascend to the next level and will do anything to get there, regardless of the consequences to those around them. I view that as their problem, not mine. They will receive their rewards as time marches forward...
7) I have worked at UPS for over 10 years, in varying capacities, all with ever-increasing levels of complexity and responsibility. I choose to accept this challenge on a daily basis and contribute to a greater overall synergy within my area of expertise.
8) I choose to work at UPS. If I was as disgruntled as half of you here, I would indeed seek employment elsewhere! Attitudes such as yours have no place in a productive, synergistic workplace anyhow.

I guess the biggest contribution I can make to you at this point is this: If you are unhappy with your current situation, change it. UPS has a right to create the workforce as they see fit. With an ever-increasing trend towards automation and web-based systems (probably the biggest TSG downsizer of all, I hope everyone can see that), TSG had to lose positions. That to me is patently obvious. Again, fortunately for me and others in my area, we work in a location where expansion is the word and new opportunities abound. But then again, opportunity is always there at UPS for those which choose to take very specific paths.

I would also like to state this as well: Thanks for the opportunity to contribute opinions on something I so strongly believe in: freedom of choice. I choose not to endorse unionization as a means of job security or, for anything whatsoever.

If you are disgruntled with UPS and don't care for how it chooses to do business, seek employment elsewhere. That is what's great about America: freedom of choice. Life is far too short to be unhappy on a daily basis. I will continue to pray for all...

 

[Conymous Aoward]

"Personal achievement" to me stands for what I strive for and try to attain, not only in my career but in my everyday life. In my world, I have no hidden agendas for what I desire to accomplish, both personally and professionally. I desire to be consistent. I desire to help my fellow man through various fund-raising activities. I desire to make a difference, whether it be at home or at work. I am willing to go the extra mile to help someone if necessary. These are a microcosm of what "personal achievement" means to me. If someone chooses to brand me using their definition of this phrase, I now understand why. They can't understand or even begin to comprehend my definition of it at all...

"Unionizing take all personal achievement out of it," you say. Then you quote the above.

You desire to be consistent -- sounds like what a management person would want to do. Consistent can be,... consistently good, consistently bad, just consistently mediocre. Good for you.

You desire to help your fellow man with fund-raisers -- I bet you salivate at United Way time! Interestingly, at UPS you are forced to give money. The moment you do, you no longer get any credit for it because the company takes all the accolade for the gift. Try not giving. You can get by with it until raise time, or you need a day off.

Next, you list helping others and going the extra mile. Huh? Sounds like you just do your job -- that is what is expected of all of us as an employee.

So, you list consistency, fund-raising, helping out, and going the extra mile as your Personal Achievement -- both at work and in your personal life.

HUH?! What gives dude? How is any of that going to help you succeed without joining a union at UPS. How is any of this anthema to being part of a union?

You sound like a guy who should be working at a small business doing good-works in your community. Please remember you work for a large corporation that the Wall Street Journal just listed as "the Marine Corps of Corporate America."

All Praise be to Personal Achievement!

 

[SeniorGeek]

Reduced from YELLING-sized type, and edited for length,

... Those which have chosen to reply in regard to my post have again made what I like to call "false assumptions". Can anyone out there give me a definition of "personal achievement"? Can you define the term "equality"? ,,, "Personal achievement" to me stands for what I strive for and try to attain, not only in my career but in my everyday life. ... If someone chooses to brand me using their definition of this phrase, I now understand why. They can't understand or even begin to comprehend my definition of it at all... ... What about "equality"? When I mention it in regard to a union environment, it really brings one very clear example to mind: I'm now doing the same job as several people. All of us are paid the same wages. However, I am doing twice the work as most in our department. That is my reference to equality. ... If I must be judged, please judge me by the same life criteria I use. Do not use some jaded concept of what you might believe my "twisted" mind might be trying to stick in front of you. I am sorry, I really don't function like that. ...

Maybe the rest of us have also been saying what we mean, not what our words (as commonly used in American English) mean to the reader/listener. If I call someone a "hypocrite" for applying one set of rules to their own words without making allowances for others to to the same, I may be complimenting that person on communication skills worthy of a high-priced attorney. May I suggest a "CurrentUPSer-English Dictionary" be provided for those who don't speak CurrentUPSer as a second language? Otherwise, it's all "gibberish". Or it might be "backpedaling in an attempt to save face", or "running in fear".

Note: All terms mean exactly what I want them to mean. Any similarity to actual language, living or dead, is entirely coincidental. The reader will be held responsible for interpreting this post in an accurate manner. Any appearance of disparagement or denigration is in the eyes of the beholder, and that beholder shall be held responsible for any bad thoughts created by that beholder's interpretation of what is merely an assortment of letters, spaces and punctuation, arranged in a way that is attractive to the eye.

 

[pdx1jsb]

1) I am a member of TSG.
2) I am not in management.

Good luck with that career plan.

3) I am truly sorry for those which have lost their jobs.

I too am sorry for the people that lost their jobs who were qualified to be working in Tech Support.

4) I make no apologies to anyone for my ideologies and beliefs in regard to unionization. The statements are made in good faith and based on honest judgment.

I make no apologies for my opinion on unionization.

5) Any statements I have made on this forum are mine and mine alone.

Yes and you post them of your own free will on a public forum for review. Be a man and deal with the comments to your statements. No wonder you aren't in management! How could you handle a head-to-head with your manager or supervisor if you can't defend your statements on a forum!

6) I have had to deal with those that aspire to ascend to the next level and will do anything to get there, regardless of the consequences to those around them. I view that as their problem, not mine. They will receive their rewards as time marches forward...

There are always cut-throat people no matter where you work and UPS is a magnet for them. Especially with MAPP in place to keep people that came through the ranks from ascending to the next level. But that is a topic to its own...

7) I have worked at UPS for over 10 years, in varying capacities, all with ever-increasing levels of complexity and responsibility. I choose to accept this challenge on a daily basis and contribute to a greater overall synergy within my area of expertise.

I'm sad to hear planning and recording your day in 15 minute increments is challenging for you. You probably bought the 'benefits of an A+ certification' email that went around!

8) I choose to work at UPS. If I was as disgruntled as half of you here, I would indeed seek employment elsewhere! Attitudes such as yours have no place in a productive, synergistic workplace anyhow.

I chose to work at UPS as well, and saw the company move from 'a great place to be' to 'an ok place to be if you don't have anywhere better to work or you aren't qualifed to work somewhere else'. I was not disgruntled when I started my tour in TSG but close to two years in I saw the writing with AD and then PMT.

I guess the biggest contribution I can make to you at this point is this: If you are unhappy with your current situation, change it. UPS has a right to create the workforce as they see fit. With an ever-increasing trend towards automation and web-based systems (probably the biggest TSG downsizer of all, I hope everyone can see that), TSG had to lose positions. That to me is patently obvious.

Web Applications + Active Directory = centralized administration and less support cost. Thats common sense and good business. I started shopping for jobs, selectively at first. PMT forced me to kick it into high gear. Anyone that didn't see this coming two years ago has slow reflexes or trusted the company would treat them better than they did. If TSG was union I guarantee the reductions would have been handled alot better than they were. Good people would have been given more notice and could have left without a lapse in employment.

Again, fortunately for me and others in my area, we work in a location where expansion is the word and new opportunities abound. But then again, opportunity is always there at UPS for those which choose to take very specific paths.

Remember this: expansion is followed by contraction. Our group expanded my first two years and then got reduced in the third. I could have left before the reductions but decided to stay through January for my sick time and 13 hrs vacation. Then we got the reduction PCM so I stayed for a nice $12000 leaving bonus. Not everyone was as fortunate and I'm thankful for the way things worked out for me.

I would also like to state this as well: Thanks for the opportunity to contribute opinions on something I so strongly believe in: freedom of choice. I choose not to endorse unionization as a means of job security or, for anything whatsoever.

Its easy to say that when you are unaffected by the reductions. I choose to endorse unionization as a means to being treated fairly. I wasn't pro-union when I entered TSG but felt union. PMT changed my opinion on this subject. I can see the benefits to using it but my problem is being held accountable to using an application when there were ever changing (sometimes weekly) instructions for how to use and code time.
You can find documents on everything in TSG, that is half your job. But there were no corporate documents for PMT usage, at least none I was shown.

If you are disgruntled with UPS and don't care for how it chooses to do business, seek employment elsewhere. That is what's great about America: freedom of choice. Life is far too short to be unhappy on a daily basis. I will continue to pray for all...

What about as a means of changing the work environment? Like I said before, if you are unhappy change the situation or leave. Those are your two choices. The only way to force change in TSG from a technician level is to unionize.

 

[TSG_Lets_Unionize]

This will be my last post on this forum.

Thank you Tie... er Current







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[TSG_Lets_Unionize]

This will be my last post on this forum.

Thank you Tie... er Current






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[SEA1SUX]

We are having our annual audit next week. There is talk of intentionally failing in order to prove a point to management. Not sure that is the smartest move, but would prove a point for sure.

 

[TSG_Lets_Unionize]

Has anyone gone to server 2003? Heard that after the upgrade we are much more limited as far as rights on the LOE?

 

[ImpactedTSG]

Has anyone gone to server 2003? Heard that after the upgrade we are much more limited as far as rights on the LOE?

wake up, they getting ready for more cuts.

 

[Tucky]

Interesting site.

I work TSG in CA., we had a few layoffs months ago and appear to be where we want to be at least until the end of the year. It's just a matter of time before TSG does not exist under the UPS package umbrella in my opinion. When a system goes down a supervisor will SOCS it out and when the replacement comes in they will plug it in the LAN and run OPIE to download the applications.

They have always talked about TSG becoming a income producing entity, I can see that happening because I think, (my opinion), that TSG will become part of TSG-SCS logistics group.

We are already starting to support SCS sites and the balance scorecard is enforcing A+ and soon to be network+ certifications. WHY?

I am trying to think positive, lol.

On the other end of the spectrum, we now have CTP which means we no longer need technicians to service external UPS hardware in the field. Customer hardware will be supported by the Gateway and Dell technicians of the world....or maybe the SCS-TSG Dell and Gatway certified technicians.... again, trying to think positive. We can not have an integrated solutions major shipper go down and expect a Dell technician to fix it at the drop of a hat.

I still think TSG will be around but more spread out and under a different umbrella.

Many technicians have put in their letter of intent to become management and many have crossed over. I personally have no desire to work 10+ hours a day without compensation. UPS wants some technical puppets in management to help with the PAS rollouts and not compensate for the hours worked or pay for their mileage because they make their home base 60 miles out.

How are things in other states?

Tucky

 

[TSG_Lets_Unionize]

Interesting site.

I work TSG in CA., we had a few layoffs months ago and appear to be where we want to be at least until the end of the year. It's just a matter of time before TSG does not exist under the UPS package umbrella in my opinion. When a system goes down a supervisor will SOCS it out and when the replacement comes in they will plug it in the LAN and run OPIE to download the applications.

Don't forget our good friend Tivoli!





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[geekdude]

Tucky,
I can tell u in my district we are squeaking by. Our staffing is way to short for the amount of work that needs to be done. Right after the cuts here, everything seemed to be like before, just without some of my tsg comrades. and of coarse a lot more work. I keep in contact with them as much as I can. They all have new jobs, making more money and happier now.

<O</OAs for talks about tsg becoming an income producing entity, I pray that is true. I have been hearing about that possibility for nearly two years now. It would be nice! Does anybody else know if that word has been floating around?

<O</OPMT is killing me. And I can say if we had our staffing as before and without PMT. I would really like my job. Honestly I would! The rules for PMT are always changing. Administrative time, HDFS time blablabla man it’s getting old real quick. It’s the biggest numbers game I have ever seen. I can’t really blame my management team; even through they do have a voice in all this corporate crap. But I think they can do a better job telling corporate that the numbers corporate is demanding is not possible. I also think that our Region management isn’t doing enough either. Techs and management here are bout ready to loose it. Its being felt everywhere.. I think it’s going to come down that PMT will be used or not be used.<O</O

 

[update district info.]

I'm a current TSGer. The only reason the numbers keep changing is because we keep meeting them. PMT was created to get rid of us period. TSG is slowly being wiped out, honestly when was the last time something good happened? I bet the next round is firing due to integrity... I district is realy pushing to mee the numbers but yet Corp keeps demanding cuts... Everyone please come back to updating this page with current events so we know whats coming and how you are being treated in other distrists. And if anyone can give any reasons why thy think they plan on keeping us please share!

PS -
JB,
I hope you're getting a nice bonus this year while a few of my friends are having hard times making it now without a job. It's one thing to get rid of us but come on give us some other projects... Put us in operations or something, at least give us the option.

 

[Rainman1]

Has anyone gone to server 2003? Heard that after the upgrade we are much more limited as far as rights on the LOE?

What limitations have you heard of? In the six migrations I have done, I have not seen any limitaion compared to what we were capable of doing before. Two major differences: the inability to connect via NetOp, which is no great loss, and disaster recovery is handled via ghost image. I think it is pretty clear that, if server recovery is handled by ghost image, eventually they will not need a technician to recover a server. What is not generally announced is that all print queues will be moved to the LOEPS and will be managable by CTSG via scripts. If the LOEPS dies, the print queues get moved to the LOEMR. There are also rumors of either a database server being put in place and the databases moved from the LOEIS, or, the databases being moved to the LOEPS.

 

[brown_is_an_ugly_color]

I bet the next round is firing due to integrity...

I feel i am as honest as they come however i think i could be accused of integrity issues when it comes to pmt. I really feel like I am in a no win situation. You either make up something for PMT and have integrity issues or you do it honestly and don't have the right numbers.


I have never been this unhappy in my life and it is due entirely to this job. Friday afternoons I start dreading monday mornings. No way to live.